ZetaTalk's Broken Dreams

Those individuals who became personally and financially involved with Nancy Lieder, ZetaTalk, or Troubled Times, Inc. and it's affiliates have spoken out publicly on several occassions.

The one thing all of these former volunteers seem to have in common is that they do not feel obligated to describe their relationship with Nancy and ZetaTalk until they have been booted out of the organization. The result of this, of course, is that they all paint a negative portrait of what has transpired. See details involving the Ron Darby Incident

At least two of these "shunned" members of Troubled Times have begun splinter movements of their own. Claiming that Nancy has become tainted and untruthful but still believing in the coming of Planet X and worldwide cataclysms, former ZetaTalk faithfull have created rival Yahoo discussion groups such as ZetaAstro and The Transformation.

This dissent has not gone unnoticed in Nancy's TT-Watch discussion group. Followers of ZetaTalk routinely create accounts on the splinter discussion groups to spam, disrupt and accuse dissenters of "being involved in true evil", "being part of the STS agenda" or often "paid assassins of the establishment", etc.

The claims of these dissenters are presented below.

From: "billglenn28"
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:13 am
Subject: Reality check

Hey folks,

I admit that every time I see Nancy promoting the ZetaTalk Accuracy Topic, I cringe (now its displayed prominently on the front page of ZetaTalk). As some of you know, I'm the fellow who helped Nancy with the construction of perhaps 75% of it. Anyway, since that time (a period of over a year) I've had a change of heart and realize that ZetaTalk is much more about ego trips than anything else. Over a month ago I wrote an essay titled "ZetaTalk: Cocreating Reality or Paradigm of Power" which I posted to tt-social. I got a couple good responses but mostly folks seemed not interested in this kind of critique. I think the jury may still be out about whether or not this Planet X will come through in 2003, but either way, I think ZetaTalk has the potential for great harm. I've been living on a commune for close to year now (Twin Oaks Community in Louisa, VA, twinoaks.org) and I can tell you from experience that Nancy's way of running things, where one person has such a monopoly over so many functions and commands such authority, is not conducive to a cooperative lifestyle. It is really too bad that most folks don't have the opportunity to live with personalities such Nancy (in an environment such as a commune) and see how things function. Isn't a curious thing that, according to ZetaTalk, many humans (perhaps thousands) will be living in hybrid communities a couple years from now, yet nobody here(except Nancy) has been permitted to visit these communities and report back to us what exactly it's like living with those hybrids. Before we commit all this energy to preparing for a pole shift in 2003 and put so much faith in Nancy, don't you think it incumbent upon us to learn firsthand what exactly we are getting into. Anyway, here is my proposal to Nancy and the folks of TT. Let's choose somebody we know here at Troubled Times who would be willing volunteer for such a project. For Nancy's part, she and her Zetas would invite that volunteer to live in one of those hybrid communities for say three weeks or so. For my part, well I don't have to give an invitation.
Twin Oaks already has an established visitor program which happens monthly (you can read about it at the webpage). The volunteer can quite easily write a letter to Twin Oaks and get an invitation to join the 3-week visitor program. Twin Oaks rarely turns people down for the visitor program based upon their letter of introduction. People here are pretty open-minded. I think Twin Oaks Community is a good choice for this kind of survey because of its popularity and reputation as one of the flagship intentional communities in North America. So, if all goes according to plan this person will report back to the members of Troubled Times after the completion of their visitor periods. Obviously, this person's report will reflect personal bias, but at least we can get a little insight into the kind of lifestyle Nancy has been promoting for the last six or so years. I think it is perfectly OK if somebody from TT Board is chosen for this project (maybe Mary since she previously expressed interest in life at Twin Oaks). OK..joke over. I know this "element of doubt" thing will be tossed at me as reason that nobody except Nancy and her tight-lipped MJ12 friends are permitted the privilege of visiting hybrid communities. Actually, I shouldn't say "visiting" because from what I understand once you get entrance, it's a life-long commitment. No turning back, no other options. If one of those New MJ12 Members decided after living with the hybrids for a month or so, "ah jeez... I can't stand this place...I can't stand all these cookie-cutter aliens and I can't stand having my voice subjugated to Nancy's" where do you think he or she ended up? Obviously, coming back to live with us human folk wouldn't be permitted because of "element of doubt" restrictions imposed by the Council of Lords (whoops, I meant Worlds). So I wonder what Mr. or Mrs. disgruntled once-upon-a-time New MJ12 Member is doing now? Well, I guess it's impossible to know when one person has absolute control over information. Of course, I'm not implying that I think she does have absolute control over information, only saying so if we are to believe in her.

Bill

From: "Gantner, George"
Date: Tue Mar 19, 2002 8:02 pm
Subject: Welcome to ZetaAstro!

As a way to get the ball rolling here, I thought I'd introduce myself, for those unfamiliar with me in my past life as a moderator of the Troubled Times lists, and tell you how I came to create this group. (This is NOT the type of posting that I hope will be common on this list, however. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from and what I hope to accomplish).

I have spent my entire life in and around St. Louis Missouri, the eldest son in a family of upper middle class Catholics. My entire education from Kindergarten to graduate school was spent in Catholic schools. But it was my nine years of education from high school on which most influenced me. Both my high school and college were run by Jesuits. The Jesuits have a very definite (and somewhat controversial) educational philosophy: they tear down your preconceptions and prior beliefs, expose you to many differing viewpoints, and then try to rebuild your belief structure to their version of the Catholic faith. Skepticism and critical thinking were strongly encouraged. Because of this philosophy, beginning at age 14 I was exposed to the teachings of atheists, agnostics, existentialists, and Eastern religions. Even though I was exposed to these many 'alternative' type beliefs, my personal bent was toward the more scientific and logical. I spent my first two years of college as a pre-med Chemistry major, I then switched majors and got my BA in Mathematics. As a senior, I competed in the Putnam mathematics competition (for any math geeks out there ;>) ).

It was during my high school years that I became a seeker who looked in many directions for pieces of the truth. I have studied, among other things, astrology, psychic phenomena, UFO's, and channeled material. I have read much of the Seth material, Ruth Montgomery, and Edgar Cayce. These last two both spoke of a poleshift imminent at the end of the twentieth century. In late 1997, I discovered ZetaTalk. Over the next few months I read the wealth of material there, and was struck by the message contained there. Much of it rang true to me, though I never did believe all of it. The Troubled Times lists were a vibrant community back then, with lively and informative discussions, survival information and research projects. I made many good friends on those lists, many have been purged, and some are still there today.

The central theme of ZetaTalk was always the existence of Planet X / Nibiru, and the poleshift caused by its passing in May of 2003. The implications of this are so profound and far-reaching that all other aspects of the message pale in comparison. However, in August of 2000, a fundamental change to the tt lists began. Beginning with the purge of Ron Darby back then, followed by the ouster of Sol, then Laura, then the bogus votecall of a few weeks ago, there has been a steady deterioration of the Zeta message and the quality of the lists. Beginning with some highly questionable ZetaTalk delivered personally to Ron back then, the Zeta message has lacked credibility. Recent claims of sightings and imaging of Planet X have been disputed by amateur astronomer members of the tt-watch list, but those voices are being steadily silenced.

Without open discussion and debate, we cannot arrive at the truth. As a moderator on the tt lists, I tried to help keep the lists open for alternative points of view, and was successful for quite a while. However, I have lost the war over there. Skepticism and critical thinking should be encouraged, not suppressed.

And so, I decided to follow through with my suggestion of August of 2001, when I proposed a tt-astro list. The difference is, I now am creating the list on my own, NOT under the auspices of Troubled Times or ZetaTalk. The question of the existence of Planet X / Nibiru is still an important one to be aired. Sitchin makes a pretty good case for its existence, and the ZetaTalk claims are so specific (including astronomical coordinates) as to boggle the mind if they are hallucinations. If Nibiru really is inbound and will arrive in about 14 months, I want to know as soon as possible so I can make my own preparations. If it is not, I want to know that so that I can get on with my life.

Please reread the group introduction before beginning posting. I will not censor any on-topic points of view, but I do want the discussion to stay on-topic. I will moderate or remove posters who are consistently off-topic.

And so, let the discussion begin. Is Nibiru really inbound and going to arrive in May 2003 or not?

From: "Sol"
Date: Mon Mar 18, 2002 3:27 am
Subject: Re: [tt-welcome] Wing Clippers

Hi Lee how are ya, and hello everyone.

Thanks for asking me to sound off, man, it gives me a good chance to say a few final words.

I can honestly say that the information on the ZetaTalk site has changed my life. I thought I knew "enough" before encountering it, but it's message had enough portent to change my view on things. The Zeta message also tied a lot of lose ends for me, made many things suddenly understandable. It seemed like a very worthwhile and interesting group to get involved in. And I did.

These Troubled Times mailing lists have been a very fun place to be. There have been lots of productive and thought-provoking discussions here, I've met some very good people, and learned many valuable new things.

And yet I think it should be obvious to all but the intentionally blind, that these TT lists have undergone some major changes lately. The latest sham vote to replace the existing moderators, with the most ridiculous lies added to support that replacement, is a good example of just what a dark area these groups are headed towards. From now on, the new tone of these groups will be set by the personage of "Jan", who is afraid for anyone to see his e-mail address because he's working for the Establishment, who is not subscribed to tt-welcome, because he's not into welcoming anybody, and who is also not subscribed to tt-social, because he's not into socializing. I know that the official explanation is that he has no time for these things. Wonderful.

The changes happening on the TT groups are a direct result of the change of tone of the Zeta message itself. In my parting message on tt-watch, I've stated my belief for the reason for this change of tone - that Nancy's basically mean personality has made her "Zeta receiver" defective, and thus she's no longer able to bring us true messages from STO beings. Instead, she's subtly changing the meaning of the old ones.

The bottom line for me is that I feel there exists a great need to openly discuss these things, without fear of rebuke or ridicule. This is no longer possible to do on this group (I hope that there was a time when it was.)

There is a need for more open discussion about the validity of the Zeta message in light of the recent changes, what does it all mean for us, where do we go from here, things like that. And there's also a need to continue having truly open discussion about the various aspects of the coming Transformation. Discussion which is not constantly interrupted by shouts of "you're an STS spy", and the like.

Therefore, my friends, I have set up a mailing list on yahoogroups, for open discussion such as proposed above.

The address of the new group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheTransformation/

And now, all one has to do is go to that page, hit the "Join this Group" link, and start posting away, whatever you want about the above topics, or whatever is related to TheTransformation. But I better mention that we'll be refraining from personal "hate bashing" on that list.

I'll see you there.

Sol

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