So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
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From: shario@tpg.com.au (Shari)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Date: 10 Apr 2002 01:12:39 -0700
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Hello to Everyone,
As my subject line reads, I am extremely relieved to have found this
group. I only found out about Planet X about 2 weeks ago and my head
has been reeling ever since. I couldn't concentrate on anything but
Planet X! I was told about it by someone that has researched Sitchin
for many years, so I have been informed about several things
concerning his research but when this person came to me about Planet X
and it's coming arrival next year, I was shocked and have felt
incredibly anxious since about it all. So I then set out to find out
as much as I could. This information was given to me with such
conviction that it was hard to disbelieve at the time and every site I
came across was giving evidence that seemed to me to all add up. My
search did lead me to Nancy's site although I didnt go right through
it as it seemed from the outset too spiritual for me. I did download
the pdf file though on safe places and had been over a period of a few
days totally caught up in the whole thing. I also visited Troubled
Times and was reading everything I could but then was starting to
panic because we dont have the same types of harsh weather where I
live that is had in the US, so therefore have no need for companies
that work in the survival field. I thought, Oh .....what are our
chances here !! My reaction was one of incredible fear for my life and
my world as I know it and in particular my children.
I reside on the East Coast of Australia and as you would all know is
supposed to end up under water. In a period of a week I was set to try
and sell and find somewhere to live further west!! This was scary
stuff. I dont want to move, I don't want to believe all this and yet
each time I tried to find the critics point of view I was having no
luck. I joined a yahoo group, but everyone there is convinced this is
to happen. I wanted to find someone if possible to explain to me the
other side and why this can't happen. Yahoo wasn't the place. I posted
there to try and find other Australians that were aware of this, but
again had no luck. I was desperate to find out the other side as I
didn't want to believe what was being put in front of me. I started
researching volcanos, earthquakes, places in Australia and their
possible fault lines and the plates. I know nothing of these sorts of
things, I am a Dance Teacher!! but wanted to find answers. I then got
into a few Astronomy sites and one finally had a message board where I
ended up getting this link. I could have turned my whole world upside
down out of fear if I was indeed gullible enough to not search for
answers for myself. If someone would kindly either post back to me or
email me at shario@tpg.com.au with some general points as to why this
will not and can't occur I would be very much appreciative. Any other
sites or message boards I could visit would be helpful as well.
I would also like to ask people's opinions on the other researchers
apart from Nancy that believe this event will happen, the following
link is to a site that have produced a video and they list on their
page information about several of these people. I would welcome
anything that will disprove the possibility in my mind that this could
happen. I was beginning to think that I was set to have anxiety until
next May until I found this site and have been reading the posts
since.
http://www.planetxvideo.com/
I thank you all for your posts that I have read so far, it has done
alot to calm me down and make me see how quickly one can get caught up
in something through fear.
With Kindest Regards
Shari
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:39:25 -0400
From: Ron Miller <rmiller@crosslink.com>
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Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
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Your letter demonstrates exactly why people like Nancy and others are
utterly irresponsible. I'm sure you'll be hearing from any number of
people in this NG as to exactly why her Planet X is total nonsense. One
question to ask yourself is: why has not one single legitimate astronomer
become aware of this body? If it is to have the effect on the earth when
she say it is supposed to, it would already be playing havoc on the rest
of the outer solar system.

RM

Shari wrote (in part):

> Hello to Everyone,
> As my subject line reads, I am extremely relieved to have found this
> group. I only found out about Planet X about 2 weeks ago and my head
> has been reeling ever since. I couldn't concentrate on anything but
> Planet X! etc. etc.
From: Boris Mohar <borism-notrequired-@sympatico.ca>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
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On 10 Apr 2002 01:12:39 -0700, shario@tpg.com.au (Shari) wrote:

 >Hello to Everyone,
>As my subject line reads, I am extremely relieved to have found this
>group. I only found out about Planet X about 2 weeks ago and my head
>has been reeling ever since. I couldn't concentrate on anything but
Snip..
>it as it seemed from the outset too spiritual for me.
>I did download
>the pdf file though on safe places and had been over a period of a few
>days totally caught up in the whole thing. I also visited Troubled
Snip..
>possible fault lines and the plates. I know nothing of these sorts of
>things, I am a Dance Teacher!! but wanted to find answers. I then got

You are a typical new age crystal sucking techno peasant.

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From: Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:45:53 +0000 (UTC)
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Boris Mohar <borism-notrequired-@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Snip..
>>possible fault lines and the plates. I know nothing of these sorts of
>>things, I am a Dance Teacher!! but wanted to find answers. I then got
>
> You are a typical new age crystal sucking techno peasant.

FOAD, Boris. The person asked some legitimate questions. Would you
like him/her to go back to the TT pages as ignorant and frightened
as she was when she came here? I wouldn't. I would prefer that she
was exposed to rational and logical thought based on sound science.

--
Bill Nelson (billn@peak.org)
From: Boris Mohar <borism-notrequired-@sympatico.ca>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:45:53 +0000 (UTC), Bill Nelson
<billn@spock.peak.org> wrote:

>Boris Mohar <borism-notrequired-@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> Snip..
>>>possible fault lines and the plates. I know nothing of these sorts of
>>>things, I am a Dance Teacher!! but wanted to find answers. I then got
>>
>> You are a typical new age crystal sucking techno peasant.
>
>FOAD, Boris. The person asked some legitimate questions. Would you
>like him/her to go back to the TT pages as ignorant and frightened
>as she was when she came here? I wouldn't. I would prefer that she
>was exposed to rational and logical thought based on sound science.

You are right. I jumped the gun. My apologies to Shari. I did not
thoroughly digest her post. It was a knee jerk reaction to the Chicken
Little effect.

Regards,

Boris Mohar

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From: civilian@sluggy.net (Civilian)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Date: 10 Apr 2002 06:15:08 -0700
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Hi

Firstly let me commend you on your response to Planex X, namely to
verify and research the facts for yourself, by persistently searching
for answers.

Second, a few points about planet x

This group is as good a place as any for info on the Planet X myth.
For basic info simply wait until Nancy posts again and then carefully
read some of the replies. Often some good science can be found there.

Now, what is planet x and why is it not true...

If you ask Nancy what Planet X is the response can vary from "a giant
comet with small moons in it's tail (zetatalk site) to "a star that is
no longer glowing" (posted in this group). When asked about specifics
Nancy and others give conflicting info.

Another key dispute is the power released by th earthquakes this
Planet x is supposed to cause. Nancy's figures are simply to high.

Sounds complicated? Well, it is thanks to Nancy. The reality is
simpler.

*If there was a large Planet X out there, scientists would have been
able to see it's effect on other Planets. No effect is visible.
*If Planet X existed as per it's believers it would have been highly
visible. It isn't.

There are people on this group much much much more qualified than me
and they will give you better answers.

It is probably not very fair, but Nancy receives the Lions share of
Planet X crit since she seems to be it's most vocal proponent. Other
Planet X'ers also post here and also get debunked.

Finally, search the net (as you have done already it seems) and also,
ask this group. ANY question is appreciated as long as it has to do
with the science of astronomy. Don't be afraid if you think your
question is stupid, as long as it is a genuine quest for knowledge.

Cheers.

Civilian. (a fellow Southren Hemisphere resident by the way...)
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From: sarahmac@hotpop.com (Sarah Mc)
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Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
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shario@tpg.com.au (Shari) wrote in message news:<6ed6b978.0204100012.8f89e17@posting.google.com>...
> Hello to Everyone,
> As my subject line reads, I am extremely relieved to have found this
> group. I only found out about Planet X about 2 weeks ago and my head
> has been reeling ever since. I couldn't concentrate on anything but
> Planet X! I was told about it by someone that has researched Sitchin
> for many years, so I have been informed about several things
> concerning his research but when this person came to me about Planet X
> and it's coming arrival next year, I was shocked and have felt
> incredibly anxious since about it all.

Get on with your life Shari. There's no world wide catastrophe coming
next year from outer space. Certainly not as Nancy Lieder et al, would
have you believe.

>So I then set out to find out
> as much as I could. This information was given to me with such
> conviction that it was hard to disbelieve at the time and every site I
> came across was giving evidence that seemed to me to all add up. My
> search did lead me to Nancy's site although I didnt go right through
> it as it seemed from the outset too spiritual for me. I did download
> the pdf file though on safe places and had been over a period of a few
> days totally caught up in the whole thing.

What happens is that people don't think rationally when confronted
with fear, or with another person who's so convinced that the end of
the world is coming that they seem "convincing" and honest. Do you
research. Most of the doomsday prophecies are easily discounted by the
mere foolishness of the "science" they use to back themselves up. To
contradict the true scientific studies. they invent conspiracy
theories to hide behind, rather than showing the proof or answering
the tough questions (a la Nancy Lieder)

> I also visited Troubled
> Times and was reading everything I could but then was starting to
> panic because we dont have the same types of harsh weather where I
> live that is had in the US, so therefore have no need for companies
> that work in the survival field. I thought, Oh .....what are our
> chances here !! My reaction was one of incredible fear for my life and
> my world as I know it and in particular my children.

Nancy (troubled times) is famous for her fear tactics. That's about
all she has to convince people that "the end of the world" is coming.
Doomsday cults have been around since the dawn of time. Nancy is no
different, no more exact, no more reliable than the thousands and
thousands of others that lied before her.

> I reside on the East Coast of Australia and as you would all know is
> supposed to end up under water. In a period of a week I was set to try
> and sell and find somewhere to live further west!! This was scary
> stuff. I dont want to move, I don't want to believe all this and yet
> each time I tried to find the critics point of view I was having no
> luck. I joined a yahoo group, but everyone there is convinced this is
> to happen. I wanted to find someone if possible to explain to me the
> other side and why this can't happen.

DO NOT alter your lifestyle because of the words of a highly doubted
woman in Wisconsin, or the new-age pseudoscience of authors. The world
wide web is a breeding ground for such people, because they have a new
found means to reach the population witha minimal of expense and
review. You'll find amny web pages out there that deal with "doomsday"
scenarios. Very few have any scientific backing, if any at all. Most
are the creations of paranoid, fear instilled people that already have
little to live for. Don't give up the life you've worked hard and long
for, on the unsubstantiated words of a "prophet".



>Yahoo wasn't the place. I posted
> there to try and find other Australians that were aware of this, but
> again had no luck. I was desperate to find out the other side as I
> didn't want to believe what was being put in front of me. I started
> researching volcanos, earthquakes, places in Australia and their
> possible fault lines and the plates. I know nothing of these sorts of
> things, I am a Dance Teacher!! but wanted to find answers. I then got
> into a few Astronomy sites and one finally had a message board where I
> ended up getting this link. I could have turned my whole world upside
> down out of fear if I was indeed gullible enough to not search for
> answers for myself.

You've done the correct thing by researching it yourself. Feal free to
read ZetaTalk and other sites, then compare the information given in
them to long standing scientific research and theory. (Some good
examples - the moon doesn't rotate, , there's a twin planet to Earth
on the other side of the sun, Planet X has moons that "swirl" around
behind it, Planet X is brown dwarf (failed sun) and has deep oceans,
but it "smoldering" - all from ZetaTalk)

If someone would kindly either post back to me or
> email me at shario@tpg.com.au with some general points as to why this
> will not and can't occur I would be very much appreciative. Any other
> sites or message boards I could visit would be helpful as well.
> I would also like to ask people's opinions on the other researchers
> apart from Nancy that believe this event will happen, the following
> link is to a site that have produced a video and they list on their
> page information about several of these people. I would welcome
> anything that will disprove the possibility in my mind that this could
> happen. I was beginning to think that I was set to have anxiety until
> next May until I found this site and have been reading the posts
> since.
> http://www.planetxvideo.com/

Rob is one of Nancy's cohorts. The information that Rob puts out is
basically the same info that Nancy Lieder has fed him. He;s nothing
more than someone looking to make a few bucks on the fears of people
by selling his videos.

Some of the readers of this newsgroup have gone to extensive trouble
to create web pages that deal with Nancy's bad science. I'm sure
they'll post in response to you as well.

> I thank you all for your posts that I have read so far, it has done
> alot to calm me down and make me see how quickly one can get caught up
> in something through fear.
> With Kindest Regards
> Shari

Just be reminded that there's always going to be someone out there
that will want to steal your money or waste your time, by trying to
instill fear. That's how scammers and con artists work. Fear is the
first tactic they use to get your attention.

If you look behind the all the mirrors and through the smoke, all
you'll find is bad science, poor physics, no math at all, failed
practical astronomy and celestial mechanics, and finally, the rantings
of someone who craves attention, like a David Koresch or Jim Jones.

The fact that ZetaTalk (Nancy Lieder) claims that aliens will "lift"
those they approve of from the planet prior to the "pole shift" should
be the first sign of many that this is nothing more than a cult.
Anyone that claims the capability to "save" people of a "like mind" is
looking to become the new mesiah.

Keep reading sci.astro for non-edited versions of this subject.
ZetaTalk and Troubled Times will only provide you with Nancy's
unsubstantiated claims. You'll find edited documents, prophecies that
are updated as the situation changes, discussion groups that are
moderated to the point of censuring opinion and facts. What you'll
find on Zetatalk/Troubled Times is information suppression and
intentional disinformation, both provided to attract people to the
site and sell them books, videos, and ask for donations to their
"non-profit", which spends the money on outrageous things, like worm
beds, hydroponics, seed gardens and of course, Nancy's servers and her
email accounts.
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From: "Mike Dworetsky" <mike@platinum198.u-net.com>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
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Shari <shario@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:6ed6b978.0204100012.8f89e17@posting.google.com...
> Hello to Everyone,
> As my subject line reads, I am extremely relieved to have found this
> group. I only found out about Planet X about 2 weeks ago and my head
> has been reeling ever since. I couldn't concentrate on anything but
> Planet X! I was told about it by someone that has researched Sitchin
> for many years, so I have been informed about several things
> concerning his research but when this person came to me about Planet X

You should visit the web site http://www.planet-x.150m.com/

for details of why this Planet X stuff is bogus. It even includes links to
actual scientific papers rather than imaginary newspaper accounts.

I commend you for not taking anyone's word for this and doing your own
research.

Imagine your anxieties, multiplied by thousands or even millions of others
who lack any real knowledge of astronomy and have been equally conned by
these people. Does anyone think the perpetrators are at worst harmless and
should be ignored?

--

Mike Dworetsky


> and it's coming arrival next year, I was shocked and have felt
> incredibly anxious since about it all. So I then set out to find out
> as much as I could. This information was given to me with such
> conviction that it was hard to disbelieve at the time and every site I
> came across was giving evidence that seemed to me to all add up. My
> search did lead me to Nancy's site although I didnt go right through
> it as it seemed from the outset too spiritual for me. I did download
> the pdf file though on safe places and had been over a period of a few
> days totally caught up in the whole thing. I also visited Troubled
> Times and was reading everything I could but then was starting to
> panic because we dont have the same types of harsh weather where I
> live that is had in the US, so therefore have no need for companies
> that work in the survival field. I thought, Oh .....what are our
> chances here !! My reaction was one of incredible fear for my life and
> my world as I know it and in particular my children.
> I reside on the East Coast of Australia and as you would all know is
> supposed to end up under water. In a period of a week I was set to try
> and sell and find somewhere to live further west!! This was scary
> stuff. I dont want to move, I don't want to believe all this and yet
> each time I tried to find the critics point of view I was having no
> luck. I joined a yahoo group, but everyone there is convinced this is
> to happen. I wanted to find someone if possible to explain to me the
> other side and why this can't happen. Yahoo wasn't the place. I posted
> there to try and find other Australians that were aware of this, but
> again had no luck. I was desperate to find out the other side as I
> didn't want to believe what was being put in front of me. I started
> researching volcanos, earthquakes, places in Australia and their
> possible fault lines and the plates. I know nothing of these sorts of
> things, I am a Dance Teacher!! but wanted to find answers. I then got
> into a few Astronomy sites and one finally had a message board where I
> ended up getting this link. I could have turned my whole world upside
> down out of fear if I was indeed gullible enough to not search for
> answers for myself. If someone would kindly either post back to me or
> email me at shario@tpg.com.au with some general points as to why this
> will not and can't occur I would be very much appreciative. Any other
> sites or message boards I could visit would be helpful as well.
> I would also like to ask people's opinions on the other researchers
> apart from Nancy that believe this event will happen, the following
> link is to a site that have produced a video and they list on their
> page information about several of these people. I would welcome
> anything that will disprove the possibility in my mind that this could
> happen. I was beginning to think that I was set to have anxiety until
> next May until I found this site and have been reading the posts
> since.
> http://www.planetxvideo.com/
> I thank you all for your posts that I have read so far, it has done
> alot to calm me down and make me see how quickly one can get caught up
> in something through fear.
> With Kindest Regards
> Shari
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From: pfunk@funkenstein.foo
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Message-ID: <3cb504a0.3246343@netnews.attbi.com>
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Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368827

On 10 Apr 2002 01:12:39 -0700, shario@tpg.com.au (Shari) wrote:

>Hello to Everyone,
<snip>
>I thank you all for your posts that I have read so far, it has done
>alot to calm me down and make me see how quickly one can get caught up
>in something through fear.
>With Kindest Regards
>Shari

Okay, now I'm pissed off. I've been reading sci.astro for some time
because I like planets and stars. I have a telescope and I like to
use it to get closer to the mystery of our universe. But I've always
read this PX stuff because I thought it was kind of funny. I've also
appreciated the science lessons that come with PX refutations. In
setting the record straight, real astronomers provide me with real
science. And, still, taking a jab know and then at the PX crowd has
been too tempting to pass up. But I'm not going to do that anymore.

Shari, I'm sorry that you were scared. If you lost any sleep, I'm
sorry about that too. It shouldn't have happened. I don't know what
the deal is with these PX folks. It's probably a combination of
people who are naive, people who are looking for something of which to
fear, people who are looking for answers and aren't satisfied with any
of those that exist currently, people who are mentally ill and,
finally, people who want power, money, or both (and, of course, they
want to get it from you).

Like I said, this pisses me off. Look PXers...you've scared the crap
out of someone for no damned good reason whatsoever. Congrats, you
acheived one of your goals. Too bad that you could not turn her into
a book or video customer, or even a "no strings attached" donation.

I'm out of here. I'm not taking anymore jabs. I'm not going to
argue. I'm not going to do anything that acknowledges planet x or the
assortment of weirdos, both good and evil, who support it. Continuing
to do this would, IMO, be no better than negotiating with terrorists.
From this point forward, you don't exist.

Finally, for those of you who know the truth--those who recognize that
PX doesn't exist but continue to scare and manipulate people like
Shari--consider this: What you are doing is really and seriously
wrong. Wake up and smell the sick shit. You are not making this
world a better place in which to live; you are bringing harm to people
who don't have the right information. You can call that a sin, a
crime, bad karma, or whatever you want. To me, it's just simply
wrong. These people did not do anything to you.

Shari, congrats on finding your truth and kudos for your diligence.

~pfunk
Path: sn-us!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: shario@tpg.com.au (Shari)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Date: 12 Apr 2002 00:15:19 -0700
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Hi Everyone,
I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my post, also to
the people that emailed me personally. Just quietly, I was ignoring
Boris's comment and I am thankful for his recent apology, I am
certainly not anything like his choice of descriptive words.
I certainly feel alot more relieved after reading the thread and your
advice and have endeavored since to investigate further through
different sources that have been recommended to me. I am finding this
NG very interesting in an area I have had no dealing with before and
therefore learning alot.
Kindest Regards
Shari
Path: sn-us!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: imopenmind@netscape.net (I M Openmind)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Date: 12 Apr 2002 10:44:21 -0700
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shario@tpg.com.au (Shari) wrote in message news:<6ed6b978.0204112315.19bf6c40@posting.google.com>...
> Hi Everyone,
> I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my post, also to
> the people that emailed me personally. Just quietly, I was ignoring
> Boris's comment and I am thankful for his recent apology, I am
> certainly not anything like his choice of descriptive words.
> I certainly feel alot more relieved after reading the thread and your
> advice and have endeavored since to investigate further through
> different sources that have been recommended to me. I am finding this
> NG very interesting in an area I have had no dealing with before and
> therefore learning alot.
> Kindest Regards
> Shari

You seem to have gotten a lot of good responses. If you want to see
some more specific analysis of what Nancy has predicted and stated
take a look at http://us.geocities.com/openmindxx/ . We have actually
followed Nancy's instructions in detail and have looked where she says
her planet will be found. It is not there and there is simply no
reason to be concerned.

IMO
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From: "Jan" <not@home.com>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
References: <6ed6b978.0204100012.8f89e17@posting.google.com> <3cb504a0.3246343@netnews.attbi.com> <6ed6b978.0204112315.19bf6c40@posting.google.com>
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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:35:25 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:369118

"Shari" <shario@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:6ed6b978.0204112315.19bf6c40@posting.google.com...
> Hi Everyone,
> I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my post, also to
> the people that emailed me personally. [...]
> I certainly feel alot more relieved after reading the thread and your
> advice and have endeavored since to investigate further through
> different sources that have been recommended to me. I am finding this
> NG very interesting in an area I have had no dealing with before and
> therefore learning alot.

Shari,

Doing the same mistake twice does not make it any better. I think you should
learn to better trust your own intellect and instincts, and not
automatically go for the latest speaker on the soap-box or the one yelling
the loudest.

Critical thinking is always required. You should never take anything you
find on the Internet as "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
truth". Getting in panic mode because you've been reading ZetaTalk and
Troubles Times is just as bad as calling it off just because the debunkers
on sci.astro says so.

There are a few serious posters on sci.astro, but unfortunately, they seem
to be forced into taking sides and participate in the "Nancy is a kook"
drivel, as the rest of the sci.astro crowd jumps hard on anyone trying to
actually evaluate the information given by Nancy and ZetaTalk.

Your best way of learning will be by reading between the lines:
* Why does astronomers and amateurs alike spend so much time and bandwidth
on Nancy and ZetaTalk?
* Why do some of the posters try to claim Troubled Times is a cult when
nothing could be further from the truth?
* Why do some posters try to stick unfounded criminal allegations to Nancy?

Probably the astrology posters like Daniel Min have a much larger general
audience, yet get nowhere near the heat Nancy and ZetaTalk gets.

May 2003 the latest you will know for sure whether Nancy and ZetaTalk have
been right about Planet X. If she's right, then it might be somewhat late to
make the necessary preparations & adjustments. If she's not, then making
some adjustments to a healthier lifestyle may not have been wasted.

Regards,
Jan
From: Boris Mohar <borism-notrequired-@sympatico.ca>
Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Reply-To: borism@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: <c78gbu4v1r0haeihd32sc2r1hq365rthmh@4ax.com>
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Xref: sn-us sci.astro:369139

On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:35:25 GMT, "Jan" <not@home.com> wrote:

>"Shari" <shario@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
>news:6ed6b978.0204112315.19bf6c40@posting.google.com...
>> Hi Everyone,
>> I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my post, also to
>> the people that emailed me personally. [...]
>> I certainly feel alot more relieved after reading the thread and your
>> advice and have endeavored since to investigate further through
>> different sources that have been recommended to me. I am finding this
>> NG very interesting in an area I have had no dealing with before and
>> therefore learning alot.
>
>Shari,
>
>Doing the same mistake twice does not make it any better. I think you should
>learn to better trust your own intellect and instincts, and not
>automatically go for the latest speaker on the soap-box or the one yelling
>the loudest.
>
>Critical thinking is always required. You should never take anything you
>find on the Internet as "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
>truth". Getting in panic mode because you've been reading ZetaTalk and
>Troubles Times is just as bad as calling it off just because the debunkers
>on sci.astro says so.
>
>There are a few serious posters on sci.astro, but unfortunately, they seem
>to be forced into taking sides and participate in the "Nancy is a kook"
>drivel, as the rest of the sci.astro crowd jumps hard on anyone trying to
>actually evaluate the information given by Nancy and ZetaTalk.
>
>Your best way of learning will be by reading between the lines:
>* Why does astronomers and amateurs alike spend so much time and bandwidth
>on Nancy and ZetaTalk?
>* Why do some of the posters try to claim Troubled Times is a cult when
>nothing could be further from the truth?
>* Why do some posters try to stick unfounded criminal allegations to Nancy?
>
>Probably the astrology posters like Daniel Min have a much larger general
>audience, yet get nowhere near the heat Nancy and ZetaTalk gets.
>
>May 2003 the latest you will know for sure whether Nancy and ZetaTalk have
>been right about Planet X. If she's right, then it might be somewhat late to
> make the necessary preparations & adjustments. If she's not, then making
>some adjustments to a healthier lifestyle may not have been wasted.
>
>Regards,
>Jan

Jan it was you that I was thinking of when I snapped at Shari. You only
sound rational because you have an agenda.
Path: sn-us!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: jeff2@freemars.org (Jeff Root)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Date: 13 Apr 2002 12:12:12 -0700
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Xref: sn-us sci.astro:369199

To "Jan" <not@home.com>

Jan,

Nancy says that the Sun is red at sunrise and sunset because
the red light is bent as it passes over the Earth to your eyes.
Do you believe that? If so, why?

She says the bending is caused by Earth's gravity. Do you
believe that? If so, why?

She says that red light is bent more than any other color of
light. Do you believe that? If so, why?

She says that several people saw planet X through 16-inch
telescopes last year. Do you believe that? If so, why?

She says that a small blob on the CCD image made by "OpenMinded"
on January 5, with an apparent visual magnitude of about 20, is
planet X. Do you believe that? If so, why?

She says that planet X is about 9 times as far from the Earth
as Pluto, and that it is affecting Earth's core in such a way
that it is changing the weather and increasing earthquake and
volcano activity. Do you believe that? If so, why?

She says that aliens implanted a device in her brain. Do you
believe that? If so, why?

She says the aliens have been 100% right in everything they
have said. Do you believe that? If so, why?

Do you trust the aliens? If so, why?

Would you trust the aliens to implant a device in your brain?
If so, why?

Would you trust the aliens to implant a device in the brain of
your mother, father, wife, brother, sister, son, or daughter?
If so, why?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis
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Xref: sn-us sci.astro:369346

Jeff Root wrote:

> To "Jan" <not@home.com>
>
> Jan,
>
> Nancy says that the Sun is red at sunrise and sunset because
> the red light is bent as it passes over the Earth to your eyes.
> Do you believe that? If so, why?
>
> She says the bending is caused by Earth's gravity. Do you
> believe that? If so, why?
>
> She says that red light is bent more than any other color of
> light. Do you believe that? If so, why?
>
> She says that several people saw planet X through 16-inch
> telescopes last year. Do you believe that? If so, why?
>
> She says that a small blob on the CCD image made by "OpenMinded"
> on January 5, with an apparent visual magnitude of about 20, is
> planet X. Do you believe that? If so, why?
>
> She says that planet X is about 9 times as far from the Earth
> as Pluto, and that it is affecting Earth's core in such a way
> that it is changing the weather and increasing earthquake and
> volcano activity. Do you believe that? If so, why?
>
> She says that aliens implanted a device in her brain. Do you
> believe that? If so, why?
>
> She says the aliens have been 100% right in everything they
> have said. Do you believe that? If so, why?
>
> Do you trust the aliens? If so, why?
>
> Would you trust the aliens to implant a device in your brain?
> If so, why?
>
> Would you trust the aliens to implant a device in the brain of
> your mother, father, wife, brother, sister, son, or daughter?
> If so, why?


Note: Jan or Nancy will fail to respond to these questions. In
any event that Nancy would ever lower herself to respond, she'll
respond in typical Zeta fashion which is to side-step any direct
question and point to references on her non-scientific web site
as total and final proof.

Jan will try to do damage control by claiming to be a reasoning
mind (who in their right mind would believe Nancy anyway?).

David might chime in that he's an instant expert in Native American
shamanism (fat chance on that) and really make Nancy look stupid!

NO ONE who follows the Zeta cult beliefs will DARE to respond with any
scientific explanations! The follow statement is total proof in this matter.


By the way Nancy... what magnitude did you say your planet is currently at?



That question will NEVER be answered by Nancy or her true minions (which
by the way only number under twenty individuals worldwide, a truly poor
showing!).


--

Michael L. Cunningham
So Cal SleeperS
2001 Grand Am GT http://www.n-body.net/registry/bogeystar/
e-mail bogeystar@earthlink.net
web site http://home.earthlink.net/~bogeystar/

Remembering the World Trade Center Massacre
Sept. 11, 2001

Cry Havoc! ...and let slip the dogs of war!

Visit the LX50 Web Site and join in our Discussion Forum!

"There are two infinite things: universe and human stupidity.
And I'm not sure of the former".
Albert.
Path: sn-us!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:26:41 -0700
Organization: Officer's Mess
Message-ID: <k40hbugr2vtur7vs7meccescp4uno0u7j3@4ax.com>
Keywords: None
X-Fanatic-Legion: #999-INTGRTY
X-Wollmann-Archives: http://www.petitmorte.net/phoenix/wollmann.html
X-No-Archive: Yes
X-URL: http://www.skepticult.org
X-KOTY-98: Wollmann
X-Y2Kook: Wollmman
X-Wollmann-Abuse-HELP: http://www.smbtech.com/ed
X-Wollmann-Abuse-Info: http://www.rahul.net/falk/quickrefs.html#W
X-Troll: No
X-Skepticult: #105-757897-285
X-Meow: Yes
X-R-U-a-Turtle: You-Bet-Your-Ass
X-Kettler-is-a-kook: Yes
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Xref: sn-us sci.astro:369203

On Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:35:25 GMT, "Jan" <not@home.com> in sci.astro
wrote:

>"Shari" <shario@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
>news:6ed6b978.0204112315.19bf6c40@posting.google.com...
>> Hi Everyone,
>> I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my post, also to
>> the people that emailed me personally. [...]
>> I certainly feel alot more relieved after reading the thread and your
>> advice and have endeavored since to investigate further through
>> different sources that have been recommended to me. I am finding this
>> NG very interesting in an area I have had no dealing with before and
>> therefore learning alot.
>
>Shari,
>
>Doing the same mistake twice does not make it any better. I think you should
>learn to better trust your own intellect and instincts, and not
>automatically go for the latest speaker on the soap-box or the one yelling
>the loudest.
>
>Critical thinking is always required. You should never take anything you
>find on the Internet as "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
>truth". Getting in panic mode because you've been reading ZetaTalk and
>Troubles Times is just as bad as calling it off just because the debunkers
>on sci.astro says so.

So Jan Why don't you use that critical thinking ability? The whole body
of Science Says NanZeta's Planet X is an impossibility. Even if she
Zetas are real they are The Most Incredibly Stupid Bunch of Aliens
(MISBA) in the universe.

>There are a few serious posters on sci.astro, but unfortunately, they seem
>to be forced into taking sides and participate in the "Nancy is a kook"
>drivel, as the rest of the sci.astro crowd jumps hard on anyone trying to
>actually evaluate the information given by Nancy and ZetaTalk.

Do you know Why? In all the time NanZeta has been posting, she has
refused with simple hand waves any sort of corrections to her math and
Science concepts. She is so stupid and dense, she still doesn't
understand orbits and how they work, or even something as simple as
retrograde motion, why plane can fly, the method of measuring distance
masses of astronomical bodies and how the measurements have gotten more
accurate as time has passed. The NanZeta shows all the intelligence of
the MISBA Zetas. That is why critical thinking people feel Nancy is a
crackpot or kook. I feel she is a criminal and next year should be held
accountable for criminal acts, along with everyone one the TT/Zetatalk
board of directors.

How are the extradition treaties in your country? Can you be extradited
for participating in criminal acts to defraud.


>Your best way of learning will be by reading between the lines:
>* Why does astronomers and amateurs alike spend so much time and bandwidth
>on Nancy and ZetaTalk?

Because real people with no knowledge of astronomy are easily fooled.
Con artist like you and Nancy depend on stupid people.

>* Why do some of the posters try to claim Troubled Times is a cult when
>nothing could be further from the truth?

It acts like a cult in all its actions. The recent purging of
"disruptions" is a prime example of such an cult like actions.

>* Why do some posters try to stick unfounded criminal allegations to Nancy?

Because we just had such a posting on sci.astro of such an act. Why
don't you answer the question "What is the current IRS status of the
Zetatalk organization?"

>Probably the astrology posters like Daniel Min have a much larger general
>audience, yet get nowhere near the heat Nancy and ZetaTalk gets.

Dan Min posts from Anon remailers. His actions of net abuse has caused
him to be banned from several remailers.

>May 2003 the latest you will know for sure whether Nancy and ZetaTalk have
>been right about Planet X. If she's right, then it might be somewhat late to
> make the necessary preparations & adjustments. If she's not, then making
>some adjustments to a healthier lifestyle may not have been wasted.

I news several years ago when NanZeta said her PlanetX was 2nd magnitude
she was a crackpot.

Her continued cries of conspiracy are laughable. Jan do you have how
many amateur telescopes that can see Magnitude 15 and dimmer Objects? I
think it would be impossible to silence that many people world wide...

--
Nokwsi
Path: sn-us!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: ladasky@my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Date: 13 Apr 2002 22:40:52 -0700
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Hi there. I haven't posted much in recent years. However, I am a bit
of a net-cop, and offered a fair amount of scientific criticism of
Nancy Leider and ZetaTalk during the years 1995-1998. You'll find my
posts archived at groups.google.com. Towards the end of that period I
tend to rant more than provide scientific commentary. Please forgive
me, after years of unrelenting nonsense, my patience was running out.

Recently I've read posts in sci.astro which criticize people like Dave
Tholen for their unrelenting replies to Nancy and the ZetaGroupies. I
hope that Shari's post serves as a wake-up call. There are good folks
out there who might do dumb things with their lives, if they don't
hear an opposing point of view!

"Jan" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<xZSt8.4667$cm1.141856@news4.ulv.nextra.no>...

[snip]

> Your best way of learning will be by reading between the lines:
> * Why does astronomers and amateurs alike spend so much time and bandwidth
> on Nancy and ZetaTalk?

Errr, because Nancy's ZetaTalk has zero scientific merit? Yet Nancy
has managed to convince folks like Shari to send Nancy money and
uproot their lives, over absolutely nothing.

> * Why do some of the posters try to claim Troubled Times is a cult when
> nothing could be further from the truth?

Please see the recent discussion about controlling participation in
the on-line Troubled Times forum. It smells like cult behavior to me.
Anyway, Shari said that she had read Troubled Times for a while, so
she would know first hand. She doesn't need to take my word for it.

> * Why do some posters try to stick unfounded criminal allegations to Nancy?

I don't know about unfounded criminal allegations. If anyone is doing
this, they should just stick to a safe allegation, and accuse Nancy of
fraud.

> Probably the astrology posters like Daniel Min have a much larger general

> audience, yet get nowhere near the heat Nancy and ZetaTalk gets.

Probably because Daniel Min, hated astrology crossposter though he may
be, isn't intimidating people into joining a cult and sending him
money. Not that I've seen, anyway. I'm not always aware when it's
Min posting. The guy uses so many pseudonyms that he hasn't directly
offended my net-cop sensibilities. He posts a lot more than, say,
Charles Cagle, but in the end his damage seems to be limited to
crossposting and wasting bandwidth. Astrology, for all its silliness,
is not a millenarian doomsday cult.

Maybe some day, when I have some free time on my hands, I'll put some
energy into Min. Right now I have a bigger ZetaFish to fry.

> May 2003 the latest you will know for sure whether Nancy and ZetaTalk have
> been right about Planet X.

And I still have a standing offer to wager $1000 U.S. with any
ZetaTalk believer. I've even given the believer until December 31,
2003 for the fictional planet to appear. Details have been posted
on-line once before. Are you up for it, Jan? Any other takers?

> If she's right, then it might be somewhat late to
> make the necessary preparations & adjustments. If she's not, then making
> some adjustments to a healthier lifestyle may not have been wasted.

Hey, Shari, I'm a biologist. I see potential catastrophes looming in
the future of humanity, too -- things like overpopulation, loss of
biodiversity, and possibly global warming. I, too, want you to adjust
to a healthier lifestyle. By all means, grow your own food! Use less
energy, and derive it from clean renewable sources! But, here's my
secret. You don't have to join any religion for me, or send me any
money.

--

John J. Ladasky Jr., Ph.D.
Department of Biology
Johns Hopkins University
Baltimore, MD 21218
USA
Earth
Path: sn-us!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: jeff2@freemars.org (Jeff Root)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: So Relieved to find this Group! Re- Planet X
Date: 14 Apr 2002 13:46:26 -0700
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Jan Rypdal wrote:

> Your best way of learning will be by reading between the lines:
> * Why does astronomers and amateurs alike spend so much time and
> bandwidth on Nancy and ZetaTalk?

Because she comes into sci.astro and posts wildly incorrect
information about a subject we know well and care deeply about,
and when she is shown exactly how and why she was wrong, she
arrogantly claims that she is 100% right and everyone else is
wrong, and repeats the same wildly incorrect information --
over and over and over.

> * Why do some of the posters try to claim Troubled Times is a cult
> when nothing could be further from the truth?

Look up the definition of "cult" in any dictionary. I don't
know whether anyone else is, but *you* are definitely a member
of a cult. Nancy Lieder's cult.

> May 2003 the latest you will know for sure whether Nancy and
> ZetaTalk have been right about Planet X.

We know for sure right now.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis
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Message-ID: <3CB9FD0D.2060105@wwt.net>
From: Thomas McDonald <tsmac@wwt.net>
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Jan wrote:

>"Shari" <shario@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
>news:6ed6b978.0204112315.19bf6c40@posting.google.com...
>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my post, also to
>>the people that emailed me personally. [...]
>>I certainly feel alot more relieved after reading the thread and your
>>advice and have endeavored since to investigate further through
>>different sources that have been recommended to me. I am finding this
>>NG very interesting in an area I have had no dealing with before and
>>therefore learning alot.
>>
>
>Shari,
>
>Doing the same mistake twice does not make it any better. I think you should
>learn to better trust your own intellect and instincts, and not
>automatically go for the latest speaker on the soap-box or the one yelling
>the loudest.
>
>Critical thinking is always required. You should never take anything you
>find on the Internet as "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
>truth". Getting in panic mode because you've been reading ZetaTalk and
>Troubles Times is just as bad as calling it off just because the debunkers
>on sci.astro says so.
>
>There are a few serious posters on sci.astro, but unfortunately, they seem
>to be forced into taking sides and participate in the "Nancy is a kook"
>drivel, as the rest of the sci.astro crowd jumps hard on anyone trying to
>actually evaluate the information given by Nancy and ZetaTalk.
>
>Your best way of learning will be by reading between the lines:
>* Why does astronomers and amateurs alike spend so much time and bandwidth
>on Nancy and ZetaTalk?
>* Why do some of the posters try to claim Troubled Times is a cult when
>nothing could be further from the truth?
>* Why do some posters try to stick unfounded criminal allegations to Nancy?
>
>Probably the astrology posters like Daniel Min have a much larger general
>audience, yet get nowhere near the heat Nancy and ZetaTalk gets.
>
>May 2003 the latest you will know for sure whether Nancy and ZetaTalk have
>been right about Planet X. If she's right, then it might be somewhat late to
> make the necessary preparations & adjustments. If she's not, then making
>some adjustments to a healthier lifestyle may not have been wasted.
>
>Regards,
>Jan
>
>
>
Shari,

Please note Jan's attempt to scare you back into the fold. It's a
common control technique, and Jan and Nancy have used it often to keep
people in line.

There have been, and will continue to be, many bad things happening
in the world. It is right to check things out to see how likely they
are, and what, if anything, a reasonable person should do to prepare for
them. You did this. You also thought for yourself in the process.
Good for you.

However, there is absolutely no way to be prepared for every bad
thing that might happen. People who try to do so usually become so
fearful of the scary things that might happen that they miss living.
They become fodder for such as Nancy and Jan, who want to increase your
fear of something they think might happen (or perhaps don't think will
happen, but choose to push for reasons of their own.)

In many cases, the effort to prepare for a fantasy causes real
problems that get overlooked. The Heaven's Gaters prepared for their
fantasy, and wound up committing suicide in the service of their
delusion. Jim Jones' Peoples Temple began as a real effort to correct
real-world wrongs; but became a suicide cult when it lost its moorings
to reality.

Nancy and Jan want you to think a certain way. (Jan says otherwise,
but his words are belied by his behavior on the wholy-owned TT
discussion group.) I want you to think for yourself. In this case,
thinking for yourself is critical, because there are signs that Nancy's
followers are being set up for the Kool-aid treatment. Again, they deny
this. But if you've read their stuff, there are very big hints that
they see your body as a sort of disposable container, which may have to
be left behind (perhaps only for a 'vacation'?) at a time the Zetas
designate.

Keep thinking for yourself. Question everything. Including (maybe
especially) me.

Tom McDonald