Zetacult Member Expatriates

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: fourth_quartz@yahoo.com (Event Horizon)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Date: 4 Apr 2002 14:40:11 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.58.100.124
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1017960011 14438 127.0.0.1 (4 Apr 2002 22:40:11 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Apr 2002 22:40:11 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:367940

Hi folks,

My subject line is an exaggeration, I was never fully "into" Nancy's
info, but was interested in it.

I was in contact with her just a couple days before her latest
posting. I was asking her kindly what was going on, having had an
interest in much of what she/Zeta's had to say. The possibility of
the 2003 event was looming in the back of my mind for over two years
now, due to various philosophical/spiritual and political areas of
study, all pointing towards some kind of monumental event occuring
sometime soon. I was actually kind of *hoping* she was right, as the
world's in just a terrible mess, more so than most people realize.

But our correspondence changed my opinion about her drastically. I
approached her with a kind curiosity, and was literally *attacked*
back, and attacked *hard*. Saying such things as she "has nothing to
prove to me" and the like, and while I tried to convince her that
there were other ways she could've gone about speading the info (and
disagreeing with her seeking a movie deal, as well as the totally
unnessecessary use of fear/shock tactics in her supposed "channeled"
info pertaining to graphic descriptions of death and suffering, etc)
she returned to me explaining how she's "known worldwide" with an
unexpected arrogance and that I couldn't possibly have anything to
offer her in the way of assistance.

(Sorry for that long run-on sentence, couldn't help myself! ;)

Meanwhile, I read what many of you are saying...I see for myself the
changes made to the predictions on her site...and in turn write to her
of the responsibility factor involved in acquiring so many people's
attention (both for and against her) and worse, any financial gain
she's received. She seems to have no concept of having any
responsibility to anyone, all the while proudly proclaiming to have
this world-wide recognition.

I simply asked her if she'd retract what she was reporting if it was
turning out to be a falsehood. She blew up at me in self-rightousness
instead.

Thank goodness I keep an open mind.

On a side note, she did claim to be "ill" in some form (and I'm not
looking for jokes to be made out of this, so please refrain those of
you so inclined) and I don't wish her ill-will in that regard. I
don't harbor any hatred towards her. But I *am* disappointed in how
she's choosing to handle this issue that she's helped perpetuate and
of which has affected so many people. I hope she comes to her senses
soon and helps those she's either intentionally or unintentionally
mislead, to re-find their lives that likely got quite caught-up in
this whole mess.

Thanks for reading...just had to air it.

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!
logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!out.nntp.be!
propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!dax.net!juliett.dax.net!not-for-mail
From: "David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com>
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Lines: 66
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
Message-ID: <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net>
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:19:35 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.217.202.4
X-Complaints-To: abuse@tele2.no
X-Trace: juliett.dax.net 1018030775 193.217.202.4 (Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:19:35 MET DST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:19:35 MET DST
Organization: Tele2 Norway AS Public Access
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368029


"Event Horizon" <fourth_quartz@yahoo.com> skrev i
> But our correspondence changed my opinion about her >drastically. I
> approached her with a kind curiosity, and was literally *attacked*
> back, and attacked *hard*. Saying such things as she "has nothing to
> prove to me" and the like, and while I tried to convince her that
> there were other ways she could've gone about speading the info (and
> disagreeing with her seeking a movie deal, as well as the totally
> unnessecessary use of fear/shock tactics in her supposed "channeled"
> info pertaining to graphic descriptions of death and suffering, etc)

Event Horizon, such questions is unwise. I know Nancy for 5 years(not so
good, but I have had correspondance with her for 5 years...many few letters
with her and the contact has been very open and I like her direct and honest
style. )and read many postings of her here and TT-lists. I like working with
people and my instincts/intuition says that I am REACTING bad about your
questions. I think her DIRECT and HONEST style(Zeta is blunt as she have
said) is perfect. She tells as it is and what it will be. Not deleting bad
info.......Why can you not accept that?

> she returned to me explaining how she's "known worldwide" with an
> unexpected arrogance and that I couldn't possibly have anything to
> offer her in the way of assistance.

Your questions were unwise. And I would not have react so strong as she had
done with you - but I will TELL YOU that I would also have been very blunt.
You asked WRONG questions....it is my opinion.

>She seems to have no concept of having any
> responsibility to anyone, all the while proudly proclaiming >to have
> this world-wide recognition.

OF COURSE she have NO responsibility for all the people in the world. It is
YOU who have the responsibility of yourself. It is YOU who makes the
decisions in life. Zetas and Nancy have NO responsibility of your life. They
can give you advices. But it is YOU who have the responsibility of your
actions in life. And if you want to choose to believe and trust ZetaTalk.

> I simply asked her if she'd retract what she was reporting if it was
> turning out to be a falsehood. She blew up at me in self-rightousness
> instead.

I hope you could share with us the WHOLE conversation what you have said and
Nancy. I guess it will be much clear for all of us(especially with me) what
you were wrong.

> Thank goodness I keep an open mind.

Me too and you have SHOWN an UNWISE way of getting a good communication with
Nancy Lieder.

>I hope she comes to her senses
> soon and helps those she's either intentionally or unintentionally
> mislead, to re-find their lives that likely got quite caught-up in
> this whole mess.

She helps with info about future pole-shift and in Troubled Times there are
ALOT of urls about advices and info how to survive and finding safe location
etc...You cannot ask for more,Event Horizon.

--

David Skywalker
Star Wars II - Attack of the Clones
22 May 2002 in Norway

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: sarahmac@hotpop.com (Sarah Mc)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Date: 5 Apr 2002 18:48:04 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Lines: 194
Message-ID: <3c09ad3.0204051848.1e0f3d76@posting.google.com>
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.146.127.64
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1018061284 1935 127.0.0.1 (6 Apr 2002 02:48:04 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Apr 2002 02:48:04 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368086

"David Storoy" (another ZetaCult member)<keeping@clean.no> wrote in message news:<XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net>...

> "Event Horizon" <fourth_quartz@yahoo.com> skrev i
> > But our correspondence changed my opinion about her >drastically. I
> > approached her with a kind curiosity, and was literally *attacked*
> > back, and attacked *hard*. Saying such things as she "has nothing to
> > prove to me" and the like, and while I tried to convince her that
> > there were other ways she could've gone about speading the info (and
> > disagreeing with her seeking a movie deal, as well as the totally
> > unnessecessary use of fear/shock tactics in her supposed "channeled"
> > info pertaining to graphic descriptions of death and suffering, etc)
>
> Event Horizon, such questions is unwise. I know Nancy for 5 years(not so
> good, but I have had correspondance with her for 5 years...many few letters
> with her and the contact has been very open and I like her direct and honest
> style. )and read many postings of her here and TT-lists. I like working with
> people and my instincts/intuition says that I am REACTING bad about your
> questions. I think her DIRECT and HONEST style(Zeta is blunt as she have
> said) is perfect. She tells as it is and what it will be. Not deleting bad

> info.......Why can you not accept that?

Why is it unwise to ask for answers to questions regarding a world
wide catastrophe, David? And why would Nancy *NOT* answer his
questions? Nancy's attitude towards people gets worse and worse, and
yet she wonders why people like Event Horizon find serious problems
with her "predictions". You didn't even question her little coup at
the TT-watch groups, nor did you question her leaving the group right
afterwards,in Jan Nolastname's hands no less. You don't question a
thing, When Nancy speaks, you jump to listen to the Gospel of the high
priestess.

>
> > she returned to me explaining how she's "known worldwide" with an
> > unexpected arrogance and that I couldn't possibly have anything to
> > offer her in the way of assistance.
>
> Your questions were unwise. And I would not have react so strong as she had
> done with you - but I will TELL YOU that I would also have been very blunt.
> You asked WRONG questions....it is my opinion.

Your opinion is flawed. There is no such thing as a WRONG question.

NO question is unwise. If people didn't ask questions, there'd be
thousands of Nancy's scamming and conning the public. It's only unwise
to NOT answer the questions when you've self-proclaimed yourself as
the high priestess of the ZetaCult. Nancy claims to "not have time" to
nswer questions, but she has time to come here on sci.astro and make
false, unproven, unsubstantiated claims towards people here, NASA and
JPL, and most of all, her claims of the "upcoming" pole shift.

>
> >She seems to have no concept of having any
> > responsibility to anyone, all the while proudly proclaiming >to have
> > this world-wide recognition.
>
> OF COURSE she have NO responsibility for all the people in the world. It is
> YOU who have the responsibility of yourself. It is YOU who makes the
> decisions in life. Zetas and Nancy have NO responsibility of your life. They
> can give you advices. But it is YOU who have the responsibility of your
> actions in life. And if you want to choose to believe and trust ZetaTalk.

That's a cop out David. If she yelled "fire" in a crowded theatre,
she'd be responsible. She's responsible with her claims of catastrophe
in the same sense. Your logic is flawed.

She has the responsibility of everyone who's taken her word as gospel.
Those people have, and will change their lives based on her nonsense.
Any dificulties they encounter because of what she TOLD them to do, is
her responsibility. You can't yell "fire" in a theatre and not be held
responsible - just as you can't claim a world catastrophe, and tell
everyone to move their families, withdraw their cash and savings, quit
their jobs and move to some desolate, remote area to await the end of
civilization without being responsible. While people are out there
waiting for the end of civilization, Nancy will probably disappear.

She is responsible for every person who takes her word as truth, and
follows through with it. She is responsible for their physical lives,
their livlihood, their savings, children and their homes.

>
> > I simply asked her if she'd retract what she was reporting if it was
> > turning out to be a falsehood. She blew up at me in self-rightousness
> > instead.
>
> I hope you could share with us the WHOLE conversation what you have said and
> Nancy. I guess it will be much clear for all of us(especially with me) what
> you were wrong.

If he did you'd probably say he "doctored the text", as is the claim
with most information that proves you ZetaCult members wrong. After
all, Nancy has told you to emulate her if you want to get "STO" status
and be "lifted". Nancy is the master of claiming things have been
doctored, when she does it herself on a daily basis.

>
> > Thank goodness I keep an open mind.
>
> Me too and you have SHOWN an UNWISE way of getting a good communication with
> Nancy Lieder.

Yes, never question the high priestess, and all will be well. Just let
her *tell* you what to do, how to think, and who to listen to.

Yes, of course. He should have sent his questions to Nancy to answer
via the Zetas on the IRC sessions, where she can take her time and
pick and choose what questions she'll answer. Typical Cult Leader,
calling such questions "trivial" or "unrelated" and refuses to answer
those that are looking for answers. She'd rather schmooch up the
existing cult members with nonsense and double-talk, and throw in a
pinch of her political views rather than answer the hard ball
questions - like,

Where's her mag 2/11 planet in the CCD images, or

How could three people see a mag 20 object visually a year ago with
the telescopes they used? Or,

Why is it when I measure the moon or sun at the zenith and the
horizon, it's slightly smaller at the horizon, not larger?

Why is it the Zetas can't give us mathematical examples because we're
incapable of understanding, but they can tell us that civilization
will come to and end in 13 months?

Why do we always see the same side of the moon if it isn't rotating?

How can a planet approach the sun at a velocity higher than the sun's
escape velocity, then stop, turn around, and head back in the opposite
direction?

How do moons "swirl" around behind a planet?

Where's the sun's dark "twin"?

Where's the Earth's dark twin?

Why does she claim that IRAS located planet X, when IRAS never did?

Why does she change her web pages to concure with current events?

Why does TT do "experiments" that have all been done before, using the
donations from private funds and members? Why did't she rent an
observatory scope to prove Planet X's existence, and therefore warn
the world?

>
> >I hope she comes to her senses
> > soon and helps those she's either intentionally or unintentionally

> > mislead, to re-find their lives that likely got quite caught-up in
> > this whole mess.
>
> She helps with info about future pole-shift and in Troubled Times there are
> ALOT of urls about advices and info how to survive and finding safe location
> etc...You cannot ask for more,Event Horizon.

What future pole shift? She has to prove it's going to happen first.
She han't even proven beyond the slimest of doubts that her Planet
exists, much less that it will cause a pole shift and the ensuing end
of civilization as we know it.

And yes, she's responsible for telling those people to up and move to
those locations as well David. Anyone that does so should have contact
with the banks and organizations that handle the Troubled Times
non-profit. They should ask and see if the TT organization is prepared
to repay those that lost retirements, children's college funds, homes,
anhd jobs. The obvious answer is NO - Nancy is completely
irresponsible towards those that she claims to be helping. Is that
what you call Service to Others, David?

The ZetaCult is "Service to Nancy" - nothing else. Her attitude to
those seeking information, her refusal to answer questions, her
continuing claims of "paid disinformation artists" (BTW that's exactly
what she is), and her constant spamming of this newsgroup for more
cult members is all you need to see through the scam.

If you can't see that, there's no hope for you. You're already in so
deep you'll never get out.

Personally, I hope everyone planning on moving or taking out their
savings also takes note of her whereabouts and the banks that handle
her finances. If it were me, and I lost anything at all due to her
nonsense, I'd sue the living daylights out of her, and everyone of the
TT board members as well.

So, if you're out there and one of those in the cult - take note. Make
double preparations. If you really feel that you **have** to do as
Nancy says, make preparations to sue her ass off when her planet
doesn't appear next spring. At least you'll have a 100% chance of
survival and 1/1000% chance of recouping your lost income and savings.

I think a class action suit against them would be well deserved after
6 years of spamming and recruiting members on this newsgroup. Lord
knows, there's enough information archived on the web to back it all
up.

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!195.40.4.120.MISMATCH!easynet-quince!
easynet-melon!easynet.net!uio.no!193.216.69.35.MISMATCH!dax.net!juliett.dax.net!not-for-mail
From: "David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3c09ad3.0204051848.1e0f3d76@posting.google.com>
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Lines: 186
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
Message-ID: <%mAr8.6182$gY3.148414@juliett.dax.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:47:23 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.216.214.49
X-Complaints-To: abuse@tele2.no
X-Trace: juliett.dax.net 1018090043 193.216.214.49 (Sat, 06 Apr 2002 12:47:23 MET DST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 12:47:23 MET DST
Organization: Tele2 Norway AS Public Access
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368120


"Sarah Mc" <sarahmac@hotpop.com> skrev i melding
> Why is it unwise to ask for answers to questions
>regarding a world
> wide catastrophe, David?

Some questions is so unwise that is obvious that Nancy or other who have
come up with such info about catastrophic events are feeling insulted or
feeling someone gives them a bad critic.

>You didn't even question her little coup at
> the TT-watch groups, nor did you question her leaving the group right
> afterwards,in Jan Nolastname's hands no less. You don't question a
> thing, When Nancy speaks, you jump to listen to the Gospel of the high
> priestess.

I have answered my opinion in TT-lists and I think the antiZetaTalkpeople is
showing lack of understanding or they only want to discrete EVERYTHING.

> Your opinion is flawed. There is no such thing as a >WRONG question.

If you want a good conversation and communication - of course some questions
are unwise or wrong.

> NO question is unwise.

It is unwise if the communication is not going to be friendly.

> That's a cop out David. If she yelled "fire" in a crowded >theatre,
> she'd be responsible. She's responsible with her claims >of catastrophe
> in the same sense. Your logic is flawed.

You CANNOT compare "yelling fire in a crowded theatre" with this
Catastrophic-things. It is your logic is flawed. She is NOT responsible for
other actions if she is giving us advice. (the exception are if she is
saying that people should murder eachother with weapons etc..very
destructive actions she will be responsible for - but not for ADVISES or
info that someone will believe or not).

> She has the responsibility of everyone who's taken her >word as gospel.

> Those people have, and will change their lives based on >her nonsense.

You are SO WRONG, Sarah Mcwhatever....If there will be NO pole-shift - it is
ONLY ME I will blame - NOT Nancy. It is ME who have listen to her advises
and sources. I have CHOSEN this by myself. It is not NANCY who have done
this!I have chosen to listen to her sources - it is MY responsibility. Not
hers. You are so wrong!I will not feel any responsibility to Nancy if it
will never happen. I will not die. The life goes on. You think all the
members/believers etc will kill themselves if it will not be a pole-shift
next year?You are a funny little girl,Sarah Mc....

> responsible - just as you can't claim a world catastrophe, >and tell
> everyone to move their families, withdraw their cash and >savings, quit
> their jobs and move to some desolate, remote area to >await the end of
> civilization without being responsible.

It is the PEOPLE who have chosen to listen to her voice who IS
RESPONSIBILITY for their ACTIONS. Not Nancy Lieder. It is thousands -
millions of people listen to about channeling etc information all over the
world. It is the people who HAVE CHOSEN to listen to them WHO is
responsibility for their own action. I have said I WILL NOT BLAME,Nancy if
it will not be a pole-shift. It is me I will blame - I know it is my own
responsibility.

>While people are out there
> waiting for the end of civilization, Nancy will probably >disappear.

The life goes on with and without Nancy Lieder anyway. She is a soul as you
and me.

> She is responsible for every person who takes her word as truth, and
> follows through with it. She is responsible for their physical lives,
> their livlihood, their savings, children and their homes.

BULLSHIT!She is NOT RESPONSIBLE for these people ACTIONS. You show with
these words that NANCY is A GOD - is she a GOD?HEHEHEH...very funny. She is
a communicator. It is you who are responsible for your own actions if you
will listen to her sources or not.

>Nancy is the master of claiming things have been
> doctored, when she does it herself on a daily basis.

Look at this site...thousands of channelers,communicators with the spiritual
world...Many people on this planet have warned about EARTH CHANGES. Nancy is
not ALONE!Native American people(especially hopi,Mayan etc) are also very
aware of events as END OF THE WORLD.

Could you please watch these urls on this page - hundreds of channelers and
sources with similar info as Nancy. She is not ALONE ABOUT this END OF THE
WORLD. She has no RESPONSIBILITY for such info - it is the audience who are
responsibility for their own actions. Nancy is not going to murder anyone
with weapons, stupid little girl. Lot of prophecies and sources with same
info as Nancy here:

http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tword122.htm

> Where's her mag 2/11 planet in the CCD images, or
>
> How could three people see a mag 20 object visually a year ago with
> the telescopes they used? Or,
>
> Why is it when I measure the moon or sun at the zenith and the
> horizon, it's slightly smaller at the horizon, not larger?
>
> Why is it the Zetas can't give us mathematical examples because we're
> incapable of understanding, but they can tell us that civilization
> will come to and end in 13 months?

About Mathematical examples - Nancy cannot deal with such advanced language.

> Why do we always see the same side of the moon if it >isn't rotating?
>
> How can a planet approach the sun at a velocity higher than the sun's
> escape velocity, then stop, turn around, and head back in the opposite
> direction?
>
> How do moons "swirl" around behind a planet?
>
> Where's the sun's dark "twin"?
>
> Where's the Earth's dark twin?
>
> Why does she claim that IRAS located planet X, when IRAS never did?
>
> Why does she change her web pages to concure with current events?
>
> Why does TT do "experiments" that have all been done before, using the
> donations from private funds and members? Why did't she rent an
> observatory scope to prove Planet X's existence, and therefore warn
> the world?

You have many good questions - but some of them shows that you do not want
that Nancy will be right on the pole-shiftinfo.

> What future pole shift? She has to prove it's going to >happen first.

Proven a pole-shift....???It will be proven when it will happen...it is only
100 % proof - when it will happen.

> And yes, she's responsible for telling those people to up >and move to
> those locations as well David.

No, she is advising us to do that. It is the people who are responsible for
their own actions. Not Nancy. And I have said she is not responsible for my
actions on this. For me it is obvious. It is me to blame if it will not
happen. It was Me who listened to her Zetas - she did not command me to do
it- she has advised.......

> If you can't see that, there's no hope for you. You're >already in so
> deep you'll never get out.

It is hope for everyone. Your destructive way of communicating is silly - I
will not listen to it. You have many unwise sentences. I listen more to
Native American sentences about life and death than Sarah Mc and also
ZetaTalk. That is for sure.

>If it were me, and I lost anything at all due to her
> nonsense, I'd sue the living daylights out of her, and >everyone of the
> TT board members as well.

YOU ARE SILLY - SO SILLY....of course you cannot win such SUE! It is you who
are responsible for your own actions. Nancy do not commands or owe you or

us - she advises us.

> If you really feel that you **have** to do as
> Nancy says, make preparations to sue her ass off when >her planet
> doesn't appear next spring.

NO, I do not want to accept your UNWISE information here. You have much to
learn about life,Sarah Mc...especially responsibility for your own actions.

> I think a class action suit against them would be well >deserved after
> 6 years of spamming and recruiting members on this newsgroup. Lord
> knows, there's enough information archived on the web to back it all
> up.

Take care and try to understand Nancy Lieder DO NOT have any responsibility
for me and others if it will not be a pole-shift. It is me and the others
who have listen to her advises.And Nancy Lieder is not ALONE about such
advises. There are many Native American groups with their visions and
prophecies about future - there are other channelers etc - so you are acting
that she is alone about this. No, she is not.

David

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-04!supernews.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!
news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!
213-145-182-142.dd.nextgentel.COM!not-for-mail
From: Stig Bull <stig.bull.no.spam@cds.no>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 13:10:58 +0200
Organization: Commercial Data Servers AS
Lines: 134
Message-ID: <a8mlbc$td650$1@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de>
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3c09ad3.0204051848.1e0f3d76@posting.google.com> <%mAr8.6182$gY3.148414@juliett.dax.net>
Reply-To: stig.bull.no.spam@cds.no
NNTP-Posting-Host: 213-145-182-142.dd.nextgentel.com (213.145.182.142)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1018091692 30840992 213.145.182.142 (16 [125885])
User-Agent: KNode/0.7.1
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368130

David Storoy wrote:

> Some questions is so unwise that is obvious that Nancy or other who have
> come up with such info about catastrophic events are feeling insulted or
> feeling someone gives them a bad critic.

You forget that in any democracy, critical thinking and questions _are_
allowed. But since your cult is a dictatorship, people are being silenced
by kicked out.


> I have answered my opinion in TT-lists and I think the antiZetaTalkpeople
> is showing lack of understanding or they only want to discrete EVERYTHING.

I'm sure you mean discredit. Why are we showing a lack of understanding when
we point out the countless flaws and errors your beloved cult priestess
perform on an everyday basis?


>> NO question is unwise.
>
> It is unwise if the communication is not going to be friendly.

Nonsense. How often you debate people outside the usenet and end up becoming
enemies afterwards?
How often du you use critical thinking in a group of people and end up being
expelled from the group?
Answer that, please.



> You are SO WRONG, Sarah Mcwhatever....If there will be NO pole-shift - it
> is ONLY ME I will blame - NOT Nancy.

Defend your cult leader and her actions at all costs. Fine.


>It is ME who have listen to her
> advises and sources. I have CHOSEN this by myself. It is not NANCY who
> have done this!I have chosen to listen to her sources - it is MY
> responsibility. Not hers. You are so wrong!I will not feel any
> responsibility to Nancy if it will never happen. I will not die. The life
> goes on. You think all the members/believers etc will kill themselves if
> it will not be a pole-shift next year?You are a funny little girl,Sarah
> Mc....

Your reasoning is just tragic, David. Just tragic.

[ snipped rest of desperate defense of the cult leader ]


>> How do moons "swirl" around behind a planet?
>>
>> Where's the sun's dark "twin"?
>>
>> Where's the Earth's dark twin?
>>
>> Why does she claim that IRAS located planet X, when IRAS never did?
>>
>> Why does she change her web pages to concure with current events?
>>
>> Why does TT do "experiments" that have all been done before, using the
>> donations from private funds and members? Why did't she rent an
>> observatory scope to prove Planet X's existence, and therefore warn
>> the world?
>
> You have many good questions - but some of them shows that you do not want
> that Nancy will be right on the pole-shiftinfo.

And you have no answers because your cult leader has not provided you with
any? Why don't you _think_ for *yourself* and answer those highly relevant
questions Sarah asked?


> No, she is advising us to do that. It is the people who are responsible
> for their own actions. Not Nancy. And I have said she is not responsible
> for my actions on this. For me it is obvious. It is me to blame if it will
> not happen. It was Me who listened to her Zetas - she did not command me
> to do it- she has advised.......
>
>> If you can't see that, there's no hope for you. You're >already in so
>> deep you'll never get out.
>
> It is hope for everyone. Your destructive way of communicating is silly -
> I will not listen to it.

Sarah is right. There is no hope for you. Not only do you not use critical
thinking, you chose to close your ears and eyes for people who has
different opinions than you and who are trying to give you advices (now,
_who_ were not openminded to new ideas ,did you say?)
However, somehow what Sarah did say, got to you in a way. Otherwise there
would not be any reason for you to chose not to debate her anymore.


> You have many unwise sentences. I listen more to
> Native American sentences about life and death than Sarah Mc and also
> ZetaTalk. That is for sure.

Yes, we know, sometimes the truth hurts, doesn't it?


> YOU ARE SILLY - SO SILLY....of course you cannot win such SUE! It is you
> who are responsible for your own actions. Nancy do not commands or owe you
> or us - she advises us.

She is fully responsible all right. Some people believe what Nutty Leader is
doing is nothing but a scam to get money out of people like you.


> NO, I do not want to accept your UNWISE information here. You have much to
> learn about life,Sarah Mc...especially responsibility for your own
> actions.

Note: This reminds me of the Vancombe Lady on MadTV who put her fingers in
her ears and goes "LALALALALALA! I am not hearing it! LALALALA".


> Take care and try to understand Nancy Lieder DO NOT have any
> responsibility for me and others if it will not be a pole-shift. It is me
> and the others who have listen to her advises.And Nancy Lieder is not
> ALONE about such advises. There are many Native American groups with their
> visions and prophecies about future - there are other channelers etc - so
> you are acting that she is alone about this. No, she is not.

Let's see how your reactions will be next year when you have spent thousands
on survival gear and canned food and in the end _you_ ended up looking like
the fool.

--
Stig Bull

No animals were hurt or killed in the process of creating this electronic
message. To reduce download time, this message is made of 100% recycled
bytes.

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!
hub1.nntpserver.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!news-out.spamkiller.net!
propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!out.nntp.be!
propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!dax.net!juliett.dax.net!not-for-mail
From: "David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3c09ad3.0204051848.1e0f3d76@posting.google.com> <%mAr8.6182$gY3.148414@juliett.dax.net> <a8mlbc$td650$1@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de>
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Lines: 85
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
Message-ID: <niGr8.6231$gY3.149116@juliett.dax.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 17:32:03 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.216.215.34
X-Complaints-To: abuse@tele2.no
X-Trace: juliett.dax.net 1018114323 193.216.215.34 (Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:32:03 MET DST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:32:03 MET DST
Organization: Tele2 Norway AS Public Access
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368157


"Stig Bull" <stig.bull.no.spam@cds.no> skrev i melding
> You forget that in any democracy, critical thinking and >questions _are_
> allowed. But since your cult is a dictatorship, people are >being silenced
> by kicked out.

TT-lists is only for pro-ZetaTalk actually and people who act as disruptor
is not allowed and banned.

> How often du you use critical thinking in a group of >people and end up
being
> expelled from the group?
> Answer that, please.

It is not a wise question to try to force her to delete some info on
ZetaTalk. It is SO unwise!It has nothing to with critical thinking - it is
stupid thinking.

> > You are SO WRONG, Sarah Mcwhatever....If there will be NO pole-shift -
it
> > is ONLY ME I will blame - NOT Nancy.
>
> Defend your cult leader and her actions at all costs. Fine.

It is ME who is listening to her and it is ME who is doing something. The
responsibility is mine on this case. If you cannot understand this you have
a long way to understand anything about responsibility I guess.....

> Your reasoning is just tragic, David. Just tragic.

You cannot fully understand the word responsibility - that is tragic...just
tragic.

> Sarah is right. There is no hope for you. Not only do you >not use
critical
> thinking, you chose to close your ears and eyes for people who has
> different opinions than you and who are trying to give you advices (now,
> _who_ were not openminded to new ideas ,did you say?)

Pretty boy, we live in a world where there are so many informationsource or
channels everywhere. I do not like your and Sarah`s advise here - and you
say it is no hope for me. When you say something like this you act as a
punishing GOD or GODESS...You are not a God or Godess..you are human beings.
Therefore I do not take your insult or bad spell on me seriously.

> However, somehow what Sarah did say, got to you in a way. Otherwise there
> would not be any reason for you to chose not to debate her anymore.

I choose more wiser information and advises from other persons like you,Stig
and Sarah. That is for sure. There are more wiser person on this planet than
you. And I choose to listen to them. Not you. Because your understanding of
life is lacking - a lot.

> > You have many unwise sentences. I listen more to
> > Native American sentences about life and death than Sarah Mc and also
> > ZetaTalk. That is for sure.
>
> Yes, we know, sometimes the truth hurts, doesn't it?

Yes, and the truth is what I love - Honesty and Truth is one of my most
important subject in life. I would sacrifice myself for truth and honesty.

> She is fully responsible all right. Some people believe >what Nutty Leader
is
> doing is nothing but a scam to get money out of people >like you.

I have almost given nothing to her.....so I do not loose anything money to
her if it will not happen. I will loose confidence with her and her source -
of course if it will not happen.

> Let's see how your reactions will be next year when you >have spent
thousands
> on survival gear and canned food and in the end _you_ >ended up looking
like
> the fool.

The life goes on Earth with or without pole-shift - I am only a player in
this magnificent play of life.

--
David Skywalker
Star Wars II - Attack of the Clones
22 May 2002 in Norway

From: "Greg Neill" <gneillRE@MOVE.sympatico.ca>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3c09ad3.0204051848.1e0f3d76@posting.google.com> <%mAr8.6182$gY3.148414@juliett.dax.net> <a8mlbc$td650$1@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de> <niGr8.6231$gY3.149116@juliett.dax.net>
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Lines: 15
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
Message-ID: <PHHr8.9946$hU3.3916249@news20.bellglobal.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 14:07:18 -0500
NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.94.205.38
X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca
X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1018120047 65.94.205.38 (Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:07:27 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:07:27 EST
Organization: Bell Sympatico
Path: sn-us!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!
nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368177

"David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no> wrote in message
news:niGr8.6231$gY3.149116@juliett.dax.net...
>
> "Stig Bull" <stig.bull.no.spam@cds.no> skrev i melding
> > You forget that in any democracy, critical thinking and >questions _are_
> > allowed. But since your cult is a dictatorship, people are >being
silenced
> > by kicked out.
>
> TT-lists is only for pro-ZetaTalk actually and people who act as disruptor
> is not allowed and banned.

Spoken like a true cultist.

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news-hub.cableinet.net!
blueyonder!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!jsilver.freeserve.co.uk!jsilver
From: Jonathan Silverlight <jsilver@merseia.fsnet.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 20:41:31 +0100
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <Xi8VbQBr90r8Ewx0@jsilver.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com>
<XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net>
<3c09ad3.0204051848.1e0f3d76@posting.google.com>
<%mAr8.6182$gY3.148414@juliett.dax.net>
<a8mlbc$td650$1@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de>
<niGr8.6231$gY3.149116@juliett.dax.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-1220.orangutan.dialup.pol.co.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 1018123366 25352 217.135.228.196 (6 Apr 2002 20:02:46 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Apr 2002 20:02:46 GMT
X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<eBzuQ2DUHuikkZpnJTdG6O0NIi>)
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368183

In message <niGr8.6231$gY3.149116@juliett.dax.net>, David Storoy
<keeping@clean.no> writes
>
>"Stig Bull" <stig.bull.no.spam@cds.no> skrev i melding
>> You forget that in any democracy, critical thinking and >questions _are_
>> allowed. But since your cult is a dictatorship, people are >being silenced
>> by kicked out.
>
>TT-lists is only for pro-ZetaTalk actually and people who act as disruptor
>is not allowed and banned.
>
>> How often du you use critical thinking in a group of >people and end up
>being
>> expelled from the group?
>> Answer that, please.
>
>It is not a wise question to try to force her to delete some info on
>ZetaTalk. It is SO unwise!It has nothing to with critical thinking - it is
>stupid thinking.

Not a wise question, hmmm? Dangerous, perhaps? Watch your back, my
friend, and be very careful what you eat and drink. That way, you might
see 2004.

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!
newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Keywords: None
X-Fanatic-Legion: #999-INTGRTY
X-Wollmann-Archives: http://www.petitmorte.net/phoenix/wollmann.html
X-No-Archive: Yes
X-URL: http://www.skepticult.org
X-KOTY-98: Wollmann
X-Y2Kook: Wollmman
X-Wollmann-Abuse-HELP: http://www.smbtech.com/ed
X-Wollmann-Abuse-Info: http://www.rahul.net/falk/quickrefs.html#W
X-Troll: No
X-Skepticult: #105-757897-285
X-Meow: Yes
X-R-U-a-Turtle: You-Bet-Your-Ass
X-Kettler-is-a-kook: Yes
Organization: Officer's Mess
Message-ID: <3h6taucaq7d2p8ojqsrvug5ris6pi2ivdn@4ax.com>
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548
X-No-Archive: yes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 87
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 07:04:56 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.71.120.1
X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net
X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1018076696 206.71.120.1 (Fri, 05 Apr 2002 23:04:56 PST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 23:04:56 PST
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368102

On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:19:35 GMT, "David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no> in
sci.astro wrote:

>
>"Event Horizon" <fourth_quartz@yahoo.com> skrev i
>> But our correspondence changed my opinion about her >drastically. I
>> approached her with a kind curiosity, and was literally *attacked*
>> back, and attacked *hard*. Saying such things as she "has nothing to
>> prove to me" and the like, and while I tried to convince her that
>> there were other ways she could've gone about speading the info (and
>> disagreeing with her seeking a movie deal, as well as the totally
>> unnessecessary use of fear/shock tactics in her supposed "channeled"
>> info pertaining to graphic descriptions of death and suffering, etc)
>
>Event Horizon, such questions is unwise. I know Nancy for 5 years(not so
>good, but I have had correspondance with her for 5 years...many few letters
>with her and the contact has been very open and I like her direct and honest
>style. )and read many postings of her here and TT-lists. I like working with

How in the hell can you call Nancy honest? Nancy is a source of
nonsense, misrepresentations, and in some cases out right lies.

>people and my instincts/intuition says that I am REACTING bad about your
>questions. I think her DIRECT and HONEST style(Zeta is blunt as she have
>said) is perfect. She tells as it is and what it will be. Not deleting bad
>info.......Why can you not accept that?

She makes up stuff and when corrected as to the facts, bends and warps
what is said and never addresses the issues.

>> she returned to me explaining how she's "known worldwide" with an
>> unexpected arrogance and that I couldn't possibly have anything to
>> offer her in the way of assistance.
>
>Your questions were unwise. And I would not have react so strong as she had
>done with you - but I will TELL YOU that I would also have been very blunt.
>You asked WRONG questions....it is my opinion.

What do you mean wrong questions. She just doesn't have the right
answers or has told too many lies and can't answer the questions
honestly.

>>She seems to have no concept of having any
>> responsibility to anyone, all the while proudly proclaiming >to have
>> this world-wide recognition.
>
>OF COURSE she have NO responsibility for all the people in the world. It is
>YOU who have the responsibility of yourself. It is YOU who makes the
>decisions in life. Zetas and Nancy have NO responsibility of your life. They
>can give you advices. But it is YOU who have the responsibility of your
>actions in life. And if you want to choose to believe and trust ZetaTalk.

Nancy has the responsibility for every dime she has taken in a dishonest
manner. The lie started with "the implant", and everything else she has
said has been a continuation of that lie.

>> I simply asked her if she'd retract what she was reporting if it was
>> turning out to be a falsehood. She blew up at me in self-rightousness
>> instead.
>
>I hope you could share with us the WHOLE conversation what you have said and
>Nancy. I guess it will be much clear for all of us(especially with me) what
>you were wrong.
>
>> Thank goodness I keep an open mind.
>
>Me too and you have SHOWN an UNWISE way of getting a good communication with
>Nancy Lieder.

Nancy is a Liar.
Everything she has said about her planet is just a lie.

>>I hope she comes to her senses
>> soon and helps those she's either intentionally or unintentionally
>> mislead, to re-find their lives that likely got quite caught-up in
>> this whole mess.
>
>She helps with info about future pole-shift and in Troubled Times there are
>ALOT of urls about advices and info how to survive and finding safe location
>etc...You cannot ask for more,Event Horizon.

She spins a great lie, story and fable.... but then again she is
following a plan to sell a script.


--

Nokwsi

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!
peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!
sea-feed.news.verio.net!quark.scn.rain.com!not-for-mail
From: Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:40:50 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Bill's eclectic interest group
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <a8o122$cai$2@quark.scn.rain.com>
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3h6taucaq7d2p8ojqsrvug5ris6pi2ivdn@4ax.com> <LoAr8.6183$gY3.148516@juliett.dax.net> <a8mket$st5uj$1@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de> <4lGr8.6232$gY3.149211@juliett.dax.net> <a8nq37$u3c8u$2@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de>
NNTP-Posting-Host: spock.peak.org
X-Trace: quark.scn.rain.com 1018136450 12626 198.88.144.25 (6 Apr 2002 23:40:50 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@news.scn.rain.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:40:50 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19 (i686))
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368216

David Storoy wrote:

> TT-lists need critical
> thinking people who are also open to ZetaTalk etc - not only anti-ZetaTalk
> or people who want to discredit or being a disruptor as only reason why
> they or on the list or a chat.

Open to critical thinking? No chance. Any person who points out the many
errors in what Nancy posts gets kicked out. How can you analyze and think
critically if you are not allowed to attempt to discredit falsehoods?

So your TT-lists do not contain people who can reason and think critically.
All it can contain is sheep who believe the dogma without question. This is
"blind faith" of the worst sort.

--
Bill Nelson (billn@peak.org)

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!easynews!newsfeed.frii.com!news-x2.support.nl!
skynet.be!skynet.be!transit.news.xs4all.nl!joshb
From: joshb@mraha.kitenet.net (josX)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Date: 7 Apr 2002 07:49:32 GMT
Organization: XS4ALL Internet BV
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <a8otmc$mc3$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3h6taucaq7d2p8ojqsrvug5ris6pi2ivdn@4ax.com> <LoAr8.6183$gY3.148516@juliett.dax.net> <a8mket$st5uj$1@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de> <4lGr8.6232$gY3.149211@juliett.dax.net> <a8nq37$u3c8u$2@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de> <a8o122$cai$2@quark.scn.rain.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: s340-modem1377.dial.xs4all.nl
X-Trace: news1.xs4all.nl 1018165772 22915 194.109.165.97 (7 Apr 2002 07:49:32 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Apr 2002 07:49:32 GMT
User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux)
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368277

Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org> wrote on Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:40:50 +0000 (UTC)
in <a8o122$cai$2@quark.scn.rain.com>:
>From bobofficers@earthlink.net Sun Apr 7 07:35:05 2002
> David Storoy wrote:
>
>> TT-lists need critical
>> thinking people who are also open to ZetaTalk etc - not only anti-ZetaTalk
>> or people who want to discredit or being a disruptor as only reason why
>> they or on the list or a chat.
>
>Open to critical thinking? No chance. Any person who points out the many
>errors in what Nancy posts gets kicked out. How can you analyze and think
>critically if you are not allowed to attempt to discredit falsehoods?
>
>So your TT-lists do not contain people who can reason and think critically.
>All it can contain is sheep who believe the dogma without question. This is
>"blind faith" of the worst sort.
>--
>Bill Nelson (billn@peak.org)

The whole problem is that there is really only one argument against
Nancy/troubled-times, and that is Nancy/troubled-times is a cult and how
they behave in the public eye.
That is really sad from the standpoint of having an
even matched debate, because science has been able to fool the people
of it's grandeur and spotlessness, Nancy/troubled-times has not.

Since "they are a cult" is the easiest argument against them, and
true in many ways (perhaps even completely true), this will most
likely occupy 95% of the discussions about them, and my estimation
is they will lose it without a chance. They already are at least.

Read this troubled-times members and Nancy: you are your own worst
enemy.

The fact that Nancy behaves like a cult-leader certainly took a big
chunk out of the credibility of the entire zetatalk for me. What's
even more sad is that like Velikovsky, who aparently did a poor
job at the same subject, you are destroying the credibility of the
whole planetX problem. How can a person still argue these points
while being on the side of openmindedness (let's call it that), that
argument is in effect defending/promoting a factual cult. Even if you
weren't a cult, the argument would be promoting "cult-like things",
and thereby stimulating belief if not in zetatalk, in cults-in-general
(as you are one by all standards that can be applied from outside, even
inside maybe).

It is frightening to see the level of childishness on such big matters
that could wipe out billions of ppl if true: not understanding that
being an actual cult, and looking like a cult are two distinct things,
and that if it is all true, you better be an actual cult and don't
look like one, then not be an actual cult but DO look like one.

Nancy is her own disinformation artist and slander campaign. What use
is it for others to debate points on logic, when you have already
gone before and drenched it all in a Cultish-sauce....

I just come up with another possibility now: YOU are the disinformation
artist here on the higher level.

YOU are here from the MJ12/shadow-intel organizations and try
to prevent rational belief in these things by creating a cult
atmosphere around it. Maybe mj12 is not at all changed (so much),
and it still has it's allience with the aliens like written, using
their information to create a semi credible position, but slandering
it at the same time by postering as a cult, thereby in the minds of
the not-so-bright majority creating a situation where this whole
debate seems to be between a doomsday-cult with some good points,
and honest scientists, so eventually when the balance-sheet of belief
is made up, the whole issue drops like a rock.

This would go before planet-X shows up too bright in the sky, and
ppl start getting out their bibles and open them at revelations,
and start connecting the dots of old predictions, the history of
the earth as it is recorded in writings and in evidence, and present
changes of the earth.

Since you don't show to be an honest person (how many honest persons
are in contact with intelligence organizations anyway), the problems
are endless. Logical question is: is that what she is looking for?

On another level i might ask: are you subconsiously generating your
cult around you, because you are afraid yourself of changing the course
of history, and you chickened out at the last instance.

Personal hint: science doesn't work on actual truth, science works
on evidence. If something feels wrong, but the evidence is right,
it is the duty of the scientist to ignore his feeling in that regard
(which after all might be the result of bias, and has no accountability
whatsoever), and draw a hard line on logic. Only this way can there
be science. Cut your naivity crap and get over yourself, you are
posting on a sci.* group, please have the courtesy of understanding
where science comes from.

jos
--

Path: sn-us!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 11:41:09 -0700
Organization: Officer's Mess
Message-ID: <ot31bugtg424i5oej4a59t9810o80nse4p@4ax.com>
Keywords: None
X-Fanatic-Legion: #999-INTGRTY
X-Wollmann-Archives: http://www.petitmorte.net/phoenix/wollmann.html
X-No-Archive: Yes
X-URL: http://www.skepticult.org
X-KOTY-98: Wollmann
X-Y2Kook: Wollmman
X-Wollmann-Abuse-HELP: http://www.smbtech.com/ed
X-Wollmann-Abuse-Info: http://www.rahul.net/falk/quickrefs.html#W
X-Troll: No
X-Skepticult: #105-757897-285
X-Meow: Yes
X-R-U-a-Turtle: You-Bet-Your-Ass
X-Kettler-is-a-kook: Yes
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3h6taucaq7d2p8ojqsrvug5ris6pi2ivdn@4ax.com> <LoAr8.6183$gY3.148516@juliett.dax.net> <a8mket$st5uj$1@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de> <4lGr8.6232$gY3.149211@juliett.dax.net> <a8nq37$u3c8u$2@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de> <a8o122$cai$2@quark.scn.rain.com> <a8otmc$mc3$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548
X-No-Archive: yes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com
Lines: 140
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368372

On 7 Apr 2002 07:49:32 GMT, joshb@mraha.kitenet.net (josX) in sci.astro
wrote:

>Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org> wrote on Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:40:50 +0000 (UTC)
> in <a8o122$cai$2@quark.scn.rain.com>:
>>From bobofficers@earthlink.net Sun Apr 7 07:35:05 2002
>> David Storoy wrote:
>>
>>> TT-lists need critical
>>> thinking people who are also open to ZetaTalk etc - not only anti-ZetaTalk
>>> or people who want to discredit or being a disruptor as only reason why
>>> they or on the list or a chat.
>>
>>Open to critical thinking? No chance. Any person who points out the many
>>errors in what Nancy posts gets kicked out. How can you analyze and think
>>critically if you are not allowed to attempt to discredit falsehoods?
>>
>>So your TT-lists do not contain people who can reason and think critically.
>>All it can contain is sheep who believe the dogma without question. This is
>>"blind faith" of the worst sort.
>>--
>>Bill Nelson (billn@peak.org)
>
>The whole problem is that there is really only one argument against
>Nancy/troubled-times, and that is Nancy/troubled-times is a cult and how
>they behave in the public eye.

Bullshit JoshX. The whole problem is the planet that Nancy says is
incoming, is an impossibility. It can't be... You can't have a planet,
that is a brown dwarf with people living on it. Nancy has some ideas how
the world works which are also impossible. Her misunderstanding of
physics is laughable.

>That is really sad from the standpoint of having an
>even matched debate, because science has been able to fool the people
>of it's grandeur and spotlessness, Nancy/troubled-times has not.

The sad Part is in the US we all con artist to take advantage of the
other mental incompetents. Which are you the con artist or the
incompetent?

>Since "they are a cult" is the easiest argument against them, and
>true in many ways (perhaps even completely true), this will most
>likely occupy 95% of the discussions about them, and my estimation
>is they will lose it without a chance. They already are at least.

No the actions of the Lieder is one of cult leader.

>Read this troubled-times members and Nancy: you are your own worst
>enemy.

Nancy allows no criticisms. Face it she still can't explain what Steve
Haas saw in the telescope, when she is pointing to some sub 20 magnitude
noise on Openminded's CCD image. 11th Magnitude Objects are within reach
of most modest sized telescopes.

>The fact that Nancy behaves like a cult-leader certainly took a big
>chunk out of the credibility of the entire zetatalk for me. What's
>even more sad is that like Velikovsky, who aparently did a poor
>job at the same subject, you are destroying the credibility of the
>whole planetX problem. How can a person still argue these points

There is no PlanetX and no problem except for people like Nancy and her
followers.

>while being on the side of openmindedness (let's call it that), that
>argument is in effect defending/promoting a factual cult. Even if you

There is no Facts. Nancy makes it all up.

>weren't a cult, the argument would be promoting "cult-like things",
>and thereby stimulating belief if not in zetatalk, in cults-in-general
>(as you are one by all standards that can be applied from outside, even
>inside maybe).
>
>It is frightening to see the level of childishness on such big matters
>that could wipe out billions of ppl if true: not understanding that

There is nothing that can do that. Certainly not a PlanetX which is
Nancy's main concern.

>being an actual cult, and looking like a cult are two distinct things,
>and that if it is all true, you better be an actual cult and don't
>look like one, then not be an actual cult but DO look like one.

JoshX here is some advice, don't drink the Kool-aide

>Nancy is her own disinformation artist and slander campaign. What use
>is it for others to debate points on logic, when you have already
>gone before and drenched it all in a Cultish-sauce....
>
>I just come up with another possibility now: YOU are the disinformation
>artist here on the higher level.
>
>YOU are here from the MJ12/shadow-intel organizations and try
>to prevent rational belief in these things by creating a cult
>atmosphere around it. Maybe mj12 is not at all changed (so much),
>and it still has it's allience with the aliens like written, using
>their information to create a semi credible position, but slandering
>it at the same time by postering as a cult, thereby in the minds of
>the not-so-bright majority creating a situation where this whole
>debate seems to be between a doomsday-cult with some good points,
>and honest scientists, so eventually when the balance-sheet of belief
>is made up, the whole issue drops like a rock.
>
>This would go before planet-X shows up too bright in the sky, and
>ppl start getting out their bibles and open them at revelations,
>and start connecting the dots of old predictions, the history of
>the earth as it is recorded in writings and in evidence, and present
>changes of the earth.

JoshX a 2nd magnitude Object is a naked eye object. 11th can be seen in
all most every Telescope and 7 X 35 binocular in the world.

>Since you don't show to be an honest person (how many honest persons
>are in contact with intelligence organizations anyway), the problems
>are endless. Logical question is: is that what she is looking for?

Fame and fortune, a Movie contract...


>On another level i might ask: are you subconsiously generating your
>cult around you, because you are afraid yourself of changing the course
>of history, and you chickened out at the last instance.
>
>Personal hint: science doesn't work on actual truth, science works
>on evidence. If something feels wrong, but the evidence is right,
>it is the duty of the scientist to ignore his feeling in that regard
>(which after all might be the result of bias, and has no accountability
>whatsoever), and draw a hard line on logic. Only this way can there
>be science. Cut your naivity crap and get over yourself, you are
>posting on a sci.* group, please have the courtesy of understanding
>where science comes from.

Bingo...
There is no Evidence of a inbound PlanetX.


--
Nokwsi

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!
Cidera!reggie.win.bright.net!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <3CAEA497.50608@wwt.net>
From: Thomas McDonald <tsmac@wwt.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 71
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:32:39 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.33.137.50
X-Complaints-To: news@airstreamcomm.net
X-Trace: reggie.win.bright.net 1018078293 64.33.137.50 (Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:31:33 CST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:31:33 CST
Organization: Airstream
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368103

David Storoy wrote:

>"Event Horizon" <fourth_quartz@yahoo.com> skrev i
>
>>But our correspondence changed my opinion about her >drastically. I
>>approached her with a kind curiosity, and was literally *attacked*
>>back, and attacked *hard*. Saying such things as she "has nothing to
>>prove to me" and the like, and while I tried to convince her that
>>there were other ways she could've gone about speading the info (and
>>disagreeing with her seeking a movie deal, as well as the totally
>>unnessecessary use of fear/shock tactics in her supposed "channeled"
>>info pertaining to graphic descriptions of death and suffering, etc)
>>
>
>Event Horizon, such questions is unwise.
>

<snip>

>>she returned to me explaining how she's "known worldwide" with an
>>unexpected arrogance and that I couldn't possibly have anything to
>>offer her in the way of assistance.
>>
>
>Your questions were unwise. And I would not have react so strong as she had
>done with you - but I will TELL YOU that I would also have been very blunt.
>You asked WRONG questions....it is my opinion.
>
<snip>

>
>>I simply asked her if she'd retract what she was reporting if it was
>>turning out to be a falsehood. She blew up at me in self-rightousness
>>instead.
>>
>
>I hope you could share with us the WHOLE conversation what you have said and
>Nancy. I guess it will be much clear for all of us(especially with me) what
>you were wrong.
>
<snip>

David,

Sorry for the snippage above, but I wanted to highlight your
statements regarding Event Horizon's asking "wrong" and "unwise"
questions. I hope that it's just a language problem, but from what
we've heard from other Zetatalkers, it is just as likely that you
actually think this way.

Recently, on this NG, Jan (don't know his last name) spent a lot of
effort to let us know that it is the mainstream scientists and those of
us who trust them who don't allow ourselves to consider 'unorthodox' or
'extreme' possibilities. IIRC, he went so far as to say that mainstream
science was a totalitarian, authortarian stucture that denied people the
right to think for themselves, or to express opinions differing from the
'orthodox' position on any subject.

Jan was talking the usual pseudo-scientific crap, of course.
However, if we were to take him seriously, then you have just uttered
heresy. You have, in effect, told Event Horizon that he must not
question the 'orthodox' Zetatalk version of events, and especially not
the pronouncements of the 'intermediary,' Nancy herself. By Jan's own
words, it is necessary to always question the prevalent view. In the
case of the Zetas, that would be the view of the Zeta's mouthpiece,
Nancy L.

Tom McDonald

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-06!supernews.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!
verio!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!wn2feed!wn14eed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!
attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc01.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pfunk@funkenstein.foo
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Message-ID: <3caeaba3.3266703@netnews.attbi.com>
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3CAEA497.50608@wwt.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.228.184.201
X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com
X-Trace: sccrnsc01 1018080854 12.228.184.201 (Sat, 06 Apr 2002 08:14:14 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 08:14:14 GMT
Organization: AT&T Broadband
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 08:14:14 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368107

On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:32:39 -0600, Thomas McDonald <tsmac@wwt.net>
wrote:

<snip>
> However, if we were to take him seriously, then you have just uttered
>heresy. You have, in effect, told Event Horizon that he must not
>question the 'orthodox' Zetatalk version of events, and especially not
>the pronouncements of the 'intermediary,' Nancy herself. By Jan's own
>words, it is necessary to always question the prevalent view. In the
>case of the Zetas, that would be the view of the Zeta's mouthpiece,
>Nancy L.
>
> Tom McDonald
>
>
>
This is correct and almost always the case with this kind of
"alternative, pseudo-scientific thinking." "If you agree with us,
you're a cutting edge thinker--just like us; if you disagree, you're
obviously part of the conspiracy and cannot be trusted." They want to
have their cake and eat it too. And this is why most people can spend
an hour in here reading and see that the odds of any of this stuff
ever happening is beyond trivial--based as much on *how its presented*
as it is on scientific fact. Yet still, this stuff works pretty
darned well on people--and there are plenty of them out there--who are
looking for something of which to be afraid. For those who want
something to be worried about, scenarios like this are rich indeed.

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!skynet.be!skynet.be!news.tele.dk!
small.news.tele.dk!195.70.164.134!news.ost.eltele.no!newsfeed1.ulv.nextra.no!nextra.com!
news2.ulv.nextra.no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
From: "Jan" <not@home.com>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3CAEA497.50608@wwt.net>
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Lines: 45
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Message-ID: <2ZUr8.1092$dm4.23555@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.67.115.43
X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@nextra.no
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 12:13:18 MEST
X-Trace: news2.ulv.nextra.no 1018174398 130.67.115.43
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 10:13:18 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368295

"Thomas McDonald" <tsmac@wwt.net> wrote in message
news:3CAEA497.50608@wwt.net...

<snip>

> Recently, on this NG, Jan (don't know his last name) spent a lot of
> effort to let us know that it is the mainstream scientists and those of
> us who trust them who don't allow ourselves to consider 'unorthodox' or
> 'extreme' possibilities. IIRC, he went so far as to say that mainstream
> science was a totalitarian, authortarian stucture that denied people the
> right to think for themselves, or to express opinions differing from the
> 'orthodox' position on any subject.
>
> Jan was talking the usual pseudo-scientific crap, of course.
> However, if we were to take him seriously, then you have just uttered
> heresy. You have, in effect, told Event Horizon that he must not
> question the 'orthodox' Zetatalk version of events, and especially not
> the pronouncements of the 'intermediary,' Nancy herself. By Jan's own
> words, it is necessary to always question the prevalent view. In the
> case of the Zetas, that would be the view of the Zeta's mouthpiece,
> Nancy L.
>
> Tom McDonald

Tom,

Previously, I have noted you as at least trying to have a decent attitude,
not resorting to the low level of unfounded allegations like some of your
fellow posters here on sci.astro. Maybe I was wrong in my judgment about
you?

I challenge you to reproduce any posting substantiating any of your above
claims, e.g. that I've said "mainstream science was a totalitarian,
authoritarian structure that denied people the right to think for
themselves". Or do I have an apology coming?

The only thing true in your above posting, even though I have not expressed
it in those terms, is that it is necessary to question the prevalent view.
Not always, though; if you've learned to apply critical thinking, areas
where the prevalent view may be flawed will stick out like a sore thumb.

Regards,
Jan

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!reggie.win.bright.net!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <3CB0B031.7010900@wwt.net>
From: Thomas McDonald <tsmac@wwt.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3CAEA497.50608@wwt.net> <2ZUr8.1092$dm4.23555@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 97
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 15:46:41 -0500
NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.33.138.7
X-Complaints-To: news@airstreamcomm.net
X-Trace: reggie.win.bright.net 1018212353 64.33.138.7 (Sun, 07 Apr 2002 15:45:53 CDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 15:45:53 CDT
Organization: Airstream
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368390

Jan wrote:

>"Thomas McDonald" <tsmac@wwt.net> wrote in message
>news:3CAEA497.50608@wwt.net...
>
><snip>
>
>> Recently, on this NG, Jan (don't know his last name) spent a lot of
>>effort to let us know that it is the mainstream scientists and those of
>>us who trust them who don't allow ourselves to consider 'unorthodox' or
>>'extreme' possibilities. IIRC, he went so far as to say that mainstream
>>science was a totalitarian, authortarian stucture that denied people the
>>right to think for themselves, or to express opinions differing from the
>>'orthodox' position on any subject.
>>
>> Jan was talking the usual pseudo-scientific crap, of course.
>> However, if we were to take him seriously, then you have just uttered
>>heresy. You have, in effect, told Event Horizon that he must not
>>question the 'orthodox' Zetatalk version of events, and especially not
>>the pronouncements of the 'intermediary,' Nancy herself. By Jan's own
>>words, it is necessary to always question the prevalent view. In the
>>case of the Zetas, that would be the view of the Zeta's mouthpiece,
>>Nancy L.
>>
>> Tom McDonald
>>
>
>Tom,
>
>Previously, I have noted you as at least trying to have a decent attitude,
>not resorting to the low level of unfounded allegations like some of your
>fellow posters here on sci.astro. Maybe I was wrong in my judgment about
>you?
>
>I challenge you to reproduce any posting substantiating any of your above
>claims, e.g. that I've said "mainstream science was a totalitarian,
>authoritarian structure that denied people the right to think for
>themselves". Or do I have an apology coming?
>
>The only thing true in your above posting, even though I have not expressed
>it in those terms, is that it is necessary to question the prevalent view.
>Not always, though; if you've learned to apply critical thinking, areas
>where the prevalent view may be flawed will stick out like a sore thumb.
>
>Regards,
>Jan
>
>
Jan,

...and areas where Nancy/Zetas' views may be flawed will also stick
out like a sore thumb, to those who have learned to apply critical
thinking. Tit for tat, Jan.

In my statement re: your saying mainstream science was totalitarian
and did not allow opposing viewpoints to be expressed, I don't see a
recent post of yours with that wording, or wording like it. I apologize
for putting those words in your mouth. (Note, though, that I prefaced
that statement with "IIRC.") I was recalling your invocation of book
burning and Nazis WRT other posters on this NG, in the post where you
named certain frequent posters and characterized their activities.
(IIRC, someone invoked Godwin's Law on you on that one. :-) )

Do you agree with Nancy when she says similar things? She has
frequently accused scientists, and IIRC, mainstream science in general,
of stifling dissent, and requiring adherence to the current paradigms.
Or do you insist that, in this, too, I am incorrect?

ISTM that much of the whole Zeta warning business has to do with
suggesting, or stating outright, that modern science and its mainstream
practitioners have engaged in a conspiracy to keep some particular
truths from the people of the world. Or am I misrepresenting the Zeta
position here? It has seemed very clear to me, but perhaps you can
correct me. If I am correct in that, then ISTM that, whether you said
that yourself or not, you associate yourself with those statements if
you don't explicitly deny them.

Finally, and with a fair amount of exasperation, I ask you if you
would tell us what the Zetas are currently giving as the magnitude of
Planet X? This question has been asked many times since the images by
IMO were posted, and linked to by Nancy. It has not recently been
answered. If it is not, may we assume that this means that Planet X is
currently at magnitude 11, as per the most recent statement by your team
on this matter?

This magnitude issue is of some significance at this time. There is
little time left this spring before the region where you allege Planet X
to be will not be visible. Soon, it will set before astronomical dark,
and so will not be available for imaging or viewing by anyone. While I
suspect that this might be something you folks are counting on (so as
not to generate more images which fail to show anything of the right
magnitude at the right coordinates), you can easily prove me wrong by
giving the current visual magnitude, or even the current magnitude in
infrared light. The question is, "Will you?"

Tom McDonald

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!
sea-feed.news.verio.net!quark.scn.rain.com!not-for-mail
From: Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 06:16:55 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Bill's eclectic interest group
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <a8rckn$iqn$4@quark.scn.rain.com>
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <3CAEA497.50608@wwt.net> <2ZUr8.1092$dm4.23555@news2.ulv.nextra.no>
NNTP-Posting-Host: spock.peak.org
X-Trace: quark.scn.rain.com 1018246615 19287 198.88.144.25 (8 Apr 2002 06:16:55 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@news.scn.rain.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 06:16:55 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19 (i686))
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368429

Jan <not@home.com> wrote:

> The only thing true in your above posting, even though I have not expressed
> it in those terms, is that it is necessary to question the prevalent view.
> Not always, though; if you've learned to apply critical thinking, areas
> where the prevalent view may be flawed will stick out like a sore thumb.

Certainly, it is necessary to question prevailing beliefs. That is how
we either gain more evidence for or against such beliefs.

However, we don't do that based on some claims forwarded by a person with
little or no knowledge of the subject. The questioning is based on either
observation or experiment - which indicates that a belief "might" be
incomplete or incorrect.

So far, as hard as many of us have looked, there is absolutely zero
evidence for some massive inbound body somewhere outside the orbit of
Pluto. Everything is based on the claims of one person - with apparently
no scientific ability. The claimed observations by others cannot have
happened - as has been pointed out many times. As such, they are negative
evidence, not evidence that support the original claim.

Nor do there appear to be any unusual weather, volcanic, earthquake,
rotation speed or any other anomalies. If there were, I (among others)
would certainly point them out and look for explanations.

--

Bill Nelson (billn@peak.org)

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-06!supernews.com!novia!novia!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!213-145-182-142.dd.nextgentel.COM!
not-for-mail
From: Stig Bull <stig.bull.no.spam@cds.no>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:59:30 +0200
Organization: Commercial Data Servers AS
Lines: 85
Message-ID: <a8mdkr$td4c4$1@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de>
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net>
Reply-To: stig.bull.no.spam@cds.no
NNTP-Posting-Host: 213-145-182-142.dd.nextgentel.com (213.145.182.142)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1018083803 30839172 213.145.182.142 (16 [125885])
User-Agent: KNode/0.7.1
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368110

David Storoy, cult member beyond reason in the Zebracult wrote:

>
> "Event Horizon" <fourth_quartz@yahoo.com> skrev i
>> But our correspondence changed my opinion about her >drastically. I
>> approached her with a kind curiosity, and was literally *attacked*
>> back, and attacked *hard*. Saying such things as she "has nothing to
>> prove to me" and the like, and while I tried to convince her that
>> there were other ways she could've gone about speading the info (and
>> disagreeing with her seeking a movie deal, as well as the totally
>> unnessecessary use of fear/shock tactics in her supposed "channeled"
>> info pertaining to graphic descriptions of death and suffering, etc)
>
> Event Horizon, such questions is unwise.

Whatever you do, don't ever criticise the cult leader. We know you go to
extremes to defend your cult leader, David.


> I know Nancy for 5 years(not so
> good, but I have had correspondance with her for 5 years...many few
> letters with her and the contact has been very open and I like her direct
> and honest style. )and read many postings of her here and TT-lists. I like
> working with people and my instincts/intuition says that I am REACTING bad
> about your questions. I think her DIRECT and HONEST style(Zeta is blunt as
> she have said) is perfect. She tells as it is and what it will be. Not
> deleting bad info.......Why can you not accept that?

Your 'instinct' tell _you_ to defend Nutty Leader, whatever she may have
done. Whatever she do, you are the first one to defend her actions.
We also know you believe you are able to think and talk for yourself, but
the truth is, you are so deeply engaged in this cult of yours, it is your
entire life and you'll do anything to defend it.
Naturally you will argue this point, but knowing you for a few years no, you
are unable to have an opinion about things unless Nutty Leader tells you
which opinion you should have on the matter.

> Your questions were unwise. And I would not have react so strong as she
> had done with you - but I will TELL YOU that I would also have been very
> blunt. You asked WRONG questions....it is my opinion.

What is wrong? People is leaving your cult and you feel that you _have_ to
tell them how wrong they were doing which lead to this? Or are you simply
miserable because the most important thing in your life is falling apart?


> OF COURSE she have NO responsibility for all the people in the world. It
> is YOU who have the responsibility of yourself. It is YOU who makes the
> decisions in life. Zetas and Nancy have NO responsibility of your life.
> They can give you advices. But it is YOU who have the responsibility of
> your actions in life. And if you want to choose to believe and trust
> ZetaTalk.

Oh she has a deep responsibility. For you, among others. Remember, you are
unable to think for yourself unless Nutty Leader tell you what to think.


> I hope you could share with us the WHOLE conversation what you have said
> and Nancy. I guess it will be much clear for all of us(especially with me)
> what you were wrong.

It doesn't matter if he show you a mail in which Nutty Leader wrote "I will
kill you if you leave." You will defend your cult leader no matter what.


> Me too and you have SHOWN an UNWISE way of getting a good communication
> with Nancy Lieder.

No comment. Your defense speaks for itself.


> She helps with info about future pole-shift and in Troubled Times there
> are ALOT of urls about advices and info how to survive and finding safe
> location etc...You cannot ask for more,Event Horizon.

So tell us, David, which place is the safe haven in Norway? How much money
are you going to spend on supplies and survival gear this year?

--
Stig Bull

No animals were hurt or killed in the process of creating this electronic
message. To reduce download time, this message is made of 100% recycled
bytes.

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-06!supernews.com!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.39.3.168!uninett.no!
dax.net!juliett.dax.net!not-for-mail
From: "David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no>
Newsgroups: sci.astro
References: <6aee72f3.0204041440.3c506286@posting.google.com> <XUlr8.6090$gY3.144334@juliett.dax.net> <a8mdkr$td4c4$1@ID-125885.news.dfncis.de>
Subject: Re: Zetacult Member Expatriates.
Lines: 72
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
Message-ID: <nCAr8.6188$gY3.148347@juliett.dax.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 11:03:47 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.216.214.49
X-Complaints-To: abuse@tele2.no
X-Trace: juliett.dax.net 1018091027 193.216.214.49 (Sat, 06 Apr 2002 13:03:47 MET DST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 13:03:47 MET DST
Organization: Tele2 Norway AS Public Access
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368125

"Stig Bull" <stig.bull.no.spam@cds.no> skrev i melding
> > Event Horizon, such questions is unwise.
>
> Whatever you do, don't ever criticise the cult leader. We >know you go to
> extremes to defend your cult leader, David.

For me she is not a CULT-LEADER. She is a source of information that I
trust. Some of it is 100 % true because I have such experiences which is the
same according with the Zetas info.

> We also know you believe you are able to think and talk >for yourself, but
> the truth is, you are so deeply engaged in this cult of >yours, it is your
> entire life and you'll do anything to defend it.

It is a source of information. I have no respect with people accusing
ZetaTalk for being a cult. I say it directly and honestly - it is crap
saying it is a cult. For me it is a source of information and with many
advises. Not a cult.

> Naturally you will argue this point, but knowing you for a few years no,
you
> are unable to have an opinion about things unless Nutty >Leader tells you
> which opinion you should have on the matter.

ZetaTalk have many opinions which I have had many years in advance when I
found ZetaTalk - I have told you this 100 times now - but you are 100 %
anti-ZetaTalk - and ZetaTalkdebunker. Of course you will discrete it 100 %.
It is your choice,opinions and belief.

> What is wrong? People is leaving your cult and you feel >that you _have_
to
> tell them how wrong they were doing which lead to this? Or are you simply
> miserable because the most important thing in your life is falling apart?

If you would be asked to remove some info from your site - it is SO UNWISE
and not a good way of getting good communication....Event Horizon advised
Nancy to remove info about the tragical events(many deads with the
pole-shift).People could ask so many critical questions they like - but not
trying to ask her to remove some info..that is UNWISE!Sarah Mc..had many
good critical questions in her reply to me which she shown. You
misunderstand my view about UNWISE questions - I am talking about asking
about removing info - such questions should NONE people try to do. It is so
UNWISE. But other critical questions - yes.

> Oh she has a deep responsibility. For you, among >others. Remember, you
are
> unable to think for yourself unless Nutty Leader tell you >what to think.

No, she has no responsibility unless it is negative motive as murder people
etc...It is only my or other egos will be hurt if it will not be a
pole-shift.

> So tell us, David, which place is the safe haven in >Norway?

Close to border of Sweden - East of Norway.

>How much money
> are you going to spend on supplies and survival gear this >year?

I do not know excactly. I hope to use some thousands. And I am responsible
for these actions. I could say NO. I will not trust ZetaTalk. It is MY
responsibility in these matters. Stig, The life for me will go on with or
without pole-shift and I only hurt my intuition and ego if it will not
happe