As I said, to FAIL to issue a warning, which you KNOW is a valid
warning, is unconscionable. Imagine the rules demanded of ZetaTalk
applied to everyday situations:

The weatherman determines, with strong certainty,
that a hurricane is going to strick the East Coast of
the US. But he’s not 1,000% SURE! Better not to
create panic, best to say nothing.

A pedestrian notes that an old woman is starting to
walk across the street when a truck is barreling along
at a rate that would make it almost impossible to
avoid hitting her. But he can’t create FEAR in her!
So he says nothing, so as not to create a sense of
fear in the old woman.

A lab technician notes that a man has cancer of the
prostate, but her supervisor has erroneously filed
this as a no-problem result. She debates exposing
the mistake or telling the doctor, but this would
create a lack of CONFIDENCE in the leadership
of the lab. Not wanting to fail to be a team player,
she says nothing.

Now where the NASA lackies and self-appointed Shepherds of the Sheep of
sci.astro would have you NOT think for yourself, or be warned, or
challenge the Good ‘Ol Boy club which they are staunch members of, I as
someone who is getting information I personally have found to be 100%
accurate have a choice:

1. Let the insults and derision and endless attempts to
get me to disappear work, and remain silent

This course would allow me to hold a good paying
job, take pleasure trips, and feel well rested. I
personally could take the message seriously if I
wanted, and save myself, perhaps murmuring my
concerns to a few close friends and family. That’s
the EASY way.

2. Put forth the message and let folks decide for
themselves, and plot their course as they wish

This course requires me to be exhuasted, insulted,
broke, and in the situation of being attacked as the
messenger BEFORE 2003 and burned at the stake
if I’m wrong AFTER 2003. Does anyone think I’m
getting rich? Having fun? Can escape in either
case? This is the DIFFICULT path, which I as the
messenger have chosen.

Subject: Re: Planet X: Messenger’s CHOICE

Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 18:52:56 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368173

Nancy Lieder writes:

> As I said, to FAIL to issue a warning, which you KNOW is a valid
> warning, is unconscionable.

Unfortunately for you, Nancy, your warning about Planet X is not valid.

> Now where the NASA lackies and self-appointed Shepherds of the Sheep of
> sci.astro would have you NOT think for yourself,

You would fall into the latter category, Nancy. You'd rather have
readers simply believe you rather than think for themselves, because
if they did think for themselves, they would see all the contradictions
in your predictions, such as the magnitude 2, magnitude 11, and now
magnitude 20 contradictions.

> or be warned, or challenge the Good ‘Ol Boy club which they are
> staunch members of, I as someone who is getting information I
> personally have found to be 100% accurate

Unfortunately for you, Nancy, your information is nowhere close to
being 100% accurate.

Nancy Lieder <zetatalk@zetatalk.com> wrote in message news:<3CAF39D6.48630238@zetatalk.com>...
> As I said, to FAIL to issue a warning, which you KNOW is a valid
> warning, is unconscionable. Imagine the rules demanded of ZetaTalk
> applied to everyday situations:


Do the Zeta approve of information manipulation, editing of documents
(including their own words), censorship of opinions and ideas, free
thinking and the ability to express those ideas, takeovers of control,
using fear tactics to spread rumours, etc, etc, etc.

It's NOT a valid warning. That's the entire gist of the matter. You're
a liar and a con artist, scamming money from innocent people. Nothing
you say, do or write will change that matter.

Until you ABSOLUTE proof of your planet's existense, you have nothing
- nothing at all, and absolutely no right to announce a warning of a
world catastrophe, much less instruct people on what to do.



(Rest of Cult propaganda and fear tactics snipped)

"David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no> wrote in message news:<8DVr8.6326$gY3.153774@juliett.dax.net>...
> "Sarah Mc" <sarahmac@hotpop.com> skrev i melding
> > Until you ABSOLUTE proof of your planet's existense, you have nothing
> > - nothing at all, and absolutely no right to announce a warning of a
> > world catastrophe, much less instruct people on what to do.
>
> You could say this to MOSES and NOAH in the past - they were warned about
> pole-shift in the past..and they got right info from their sources. There
> are Native American groups who knows about coming Earth Changes - the same
> with other Clairvoyant people. You can say it to all of them - that they
> have no right to announce a warning.....so if you saw a vision in a dream in
> the night or in the daylight ABOUT a catastrophic events - you would not do
> anything about it?Hm...VERY selfish way of thinking,Sarah....Ok, you proved
> it to be such person who will not have warned about pole-shift if you got a
> vision of it.....

I wasn't there with Noah or Moses, so I won't make such statements as
you have above. Yoo create a supposition based on unknowns. I'm not so
foolish as to do that. I read and see what Nancy does on a regular
basis, and I can make statements and create opinion based on those
facts and her archived writings. I cannot say the same for "Noah" or
"Moses", as I wasn't there to see what occured or who said what. I
have never studied the bible, so I can't even make an educated guess
on their intentions or supposed knowledge about the "pole shift". But
if you have proof, you'd best put it up there and have a Christianity
expert ready to fully back you up.

I have never once mentioned Moses, Noah, the Native Americans or any
other "Clairvoyant" people. None of them are here on sci.astro telling
people that civilization will end in 13 months and to start making
preparations for "the end". Visions are not proof. If you had a dream
or vision of a fire in a theatre, would you run to every theatre in
town and yell "fire"? Of course not. But here we have Nancy yelling
"the sky is falling" with nothing more than voices in her head as
proof. Nothing more than unsubstantiated, undocumented, unheard
"voices".

>
> You are saying that Nancy Lieder and other have absolute no right to warn
> people about her and their vision and info

They do not, especially when they have no proof, no evidence. When
there's contra-indications that their information is abosolutely
incorrect, fatally flawed, or is derived for financial gain, then none
of it should be trusted. Nancy has been wrong hundreds of times, and
therefore her need to constantly reaffirm the "Zetas Right!". If they
were always right, there would be no need to constantly tell everyone
that they were.

- I WILL TELL YOU THIS....Who do
> you think you are?Goddess?YOU,Sarah has ABSOLUTE NO right to say such thing
> above!!!!!!!NO RIGHT!

This is a typical cult reply, and you've just made a fool of yourself.
I'd suggest you check what country I live in David. I don't know the
laws in Norway, but here in the US I'm free to voice my opinions. I am
not free however, to run into a theatre and yell "fire".

You say in one post that Nancy has the right to yell fire in a crowded
theatre, or contantly spam this newsgroup telling people to move, sell
their belongings
and cash in their stocks and bonds. She has the right to tell the
world of impending cataclysmic world disaster without proof, and to
tell the people how to prepare with no training or even evidence that
the disaster is even going to occur.

On the other "cult" hand, I don't have the right to express my
opinion.

This is not your ZetaCult, David. This is not Nancy's "sci.astro
debates". This is sci.astro, this is reality. This is where everyone
has the right to an opinion. We can debate the issue, nothing is
hidden or obscured here like at TT-watch.

That was a typical, hypocritical, self-damaging, cult comment David.

In your "cult" view, Nancy is allowed to make comments that could and
would endanger the well being of people, but her opponents do NOT have
the right to voice their opinions about her. That only happens on
TT-watch, not here in the real world. You cult members live in a
little world all your own, derived from within fear and constant
paranoia - where all the rules and laws of reality are unknown or
don't apply.

"David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no> wrote in message news:<8DVr8.6326$gY3.153774@juliett.dax.net>...
> "Sarah Mc" <sarahmac@hotpop.com> skrev i melding
> > Until you ABSOLUTE proof of your planet's existense, you have nothing
> > - nothing at all, and absolutely no right to announce a warning of a
> > world catastrophe, much less instruct people on what to do.
>
> You could say this to MOSES and NOAH in the past - they were warned about
> pole-shift in the past..and they got right info from their sources. There
> are Native American groups who knows about coming Earth Changes - the same
> with other Clairvoyant people. You can say it to all of them - that they
> have no right to announce a warning.....so if you saw a vision in a dream in
> the night or in the daylight ABOUT a catastrophic events - you would not do
> anything about it?Hm...VERY selfish way of thinking,Sarah....Ok, you proved
> it to be such person who will not have warned about pole-shift if you got a
> vision of it.....
>
> You are saying that Nancy Lieder and other have absolute no right to warn
> people about her and their vision and info - I WILL TELL YOU THIS....Who do
> you think you are?Goddess?YOU,Sarah has ABSOLUTE NO right to say such thing
> above!!!!!!!NO RIGHT!

David- Tell us this... Why, when Nancy's source tells her to draw a
circle around blank sky or stars and call it PX, does this not
demonstrate that source to be invalid?

I

On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 10:58:12 GMT, "David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no> in
sci.astro wrote:

>
>"Sarah Mc" <sarahmac@hotpop.com> skrev i melding
>> Until you ABSOLUTE proof of your planet's existense, you have nothing
>> - nothing at all, and absolutely no right to announce a warning of a
>> world catastrophe, much less instruct people on what to do.
>
>You could say this to MOSES and NOAH in the past - they were warned about

Moses and Noah? They claimed to have implants from Aliens? Noah ran
around warning people? Hint: Moses actually ran from his duty according
to the bible.

>pole-shift in the past..and they got right info from their sources. There

There is no such thing as a "poleshift" as Nancy talks of it.

>are Native American groups who knows about coming Earth Changes - the same

You have to be kidding...
and you know this because you set in what lodges? What Clan allows you
a voice or gives you hearing?

>with other Clairvoyant people. You can say it to all of them - that they

There is no such thing as Clairvoyancy...

>have no right to announce a warning.....so if you saw a vision in a dream in
>the night or in the daylight ABOUT a catastrophic events - you would not do
>anything about it?Hm...VERY selfish way of thinking,Sarah....Ok, you proved
>it to be such person who will not have warned about pole-shift if you got a
>vision of it.....

Dreams are not real....

>
>You are saying that Nancy Lieder and other have absolute no right to warn
>people about her and their vision and info - I WILL TELL YOU THIS....Who do
>you think you are?Goddess?YOU,Sarah has ABSOLUTE NO right to say such thing
>above!!!!!!!NO RIGHT!

Nancy is a scam artist. Just as other end of the world cults and
scams... they all too often end up in mass suicides.


--
Nokwsi

"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@earthlink.net> skrev i melding > Moses and Noah?
They claimed to have implants from Aliens? Noah ran
> around warning people? Hint: Moses actually ran from his duty according
> to the bible.

They got info from alien sources about Planet X too.

> >are Native American groups who knows about coming Earth Changes - the
same
>
> You have to be kidding...
> and you know this because you set in what lodges? >What Clan allows you
> a voice or gives you hearing?

You misunderstand. Hopi-Indians,Mayan-Indians and some other has talked
about END OF THE WORLD - a suncycle is closing on Earth. A new world will be
born - have you not heard about it?

> >with other Clairvoyant people. You can say it to all of them - that they
>
> There is no such thing as Clairvoyancy...

So there are none who could see aura for instance?Communicate with the
spirit world?Clairvoyant people can see something what "other" people could
not see. And sense something what other people could not sense.

> Dreams are not real....

Vivid dreams or Out-of-body dreams is real. I have had such experience in my
life. I am talking from experience.

> Nancy is a scam artist. Just as other end of the world >cults and
> scams... they all too often end up in mass suicides.

Since you say you are a Native American I think it is strange that you have
not listen to prophecies and vision of some of the tribes as Hopi,Mayan and
others.

--
David Skywalker
Star Wars II - Attack of the Clones
22 May 2002 in Norway

On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 21:23:15 GMT, "David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no> in
sci.astro wrote:

>
>"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@earthlink.net> skrev i melding > Moses and Noah?
>They claimed to have implants from Aliens? Noah ran
>> around warning people? Hint: Moses actually ran from his duty according
>> to the bible.
>
>They got info from alien sources about Planet X too.

What? Not according to the Rabbi...

>> >are Native American groups who knows about coming Earth Changes - the
>same
>>
>> You have to be kidding...
>> and you know this because you set in what lodges? >What Clan allows you
>> a voice or gives you hearing?
>
>You misunderstand. Hopi-Indians,Mayan-Indians and some other has talked

Hopi Indians or those pretending to be Hopi?
Mayans as a race and tribe disappeared long ago.

The only mouths I hear are those that pretend to be Native American...

>about END OF THE WORLD - a suncycle is closing on Earth. A new world will be
>born - have you not heard about it?

A new day is born on every sunrise. There is no "Myths native to North
America about end times or the end of all times. All those "tales" are
imported from Europe.

>> >with other Clairvoyant people. You can say it to all of them - that they
>>
>> There is no such thing as Clairvoyancy...
>
>So there are none who could see aura for instance?Communicate with the
>spirit world?Clairvoyant people can see something what "other" people could
>not see. And sense something what other people could not sense.

Exactly. Those people are labeled as delusional people. Self Delusion is
perhaps the biggest lie of all.

>> Dreams are not real....
>
>Vivid dreams or Out-of-body dreams is real. I have had such experience in my
>life. I am talking from experience.

See above, Self Delusion is the largest lie of all.

>> Nancy is a scam artist. Just as other end of the world >cults and
>> scams... they all too often end up in mass suicides.
>
>Since you say you are a Native American I think it is strange that you have
>not listen to prophecies and vision of some of the tribes as Hopi,Mayan and
>others.

Mayans disappeared as a tribe before the coming of the white man, Toltec
too. The remaining Aztec population was reduced to nearly nothing. The
language and religion destroyed. What remains is a reconstruction which
is mimicry of what was once there.

Mayans were not a advanced people... They actually over harvested their
crops and lands and staved to death...

Now since you mention Hopi, Just which tribe/clan/sept is it you are
referencing?

--
Nokwsi

"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@earthlink.net> skrev i melding
> >You misunderstand. Hopi-Indians,Mayan-Indians and some other has talked
>
> Hopi Indians or those pretending to be Hopi?

Floyd Crew Westerman who is one of the most well-known Hopi-indian has said
anything about their prophecies about END TIMES.

> The only mouths I hear are those that pretend to be Native American...

I guess you do not like the traditional ways of your people?

> A new day is born on every sunrise. There is no "Myths >native to North
> America about end times or the end of all times. All those "tales" are
> imported from Europe.

I guess you are not so informed. I guess you do not be so interested in
traditional ways of learning of your people.

> >So there are none who could see aura for instance?Communicate with the
> >spirit world?Clairvoyant people can see something what "other" people
could
> >not see. And sense something what other people could not sense.
>
> Exactly. Those people are labeled as delusional people. Self Delusion is
> perhaps the biggest lie of all.

You do not talk as an Native American who is interested in the spiritual
world. Very sad to hear. Too many Native American people today do NOT listen
to the traditional ways of learning which is also about spiritual world. Sad
to hear.

> >> Dreams are not real....
> >
> >Vivid dreams or Out-of-body dreams is real. I have had such experience in
my
> >life. I am talking from experience.
>
> See above, Self Delusion is the largest lie of all.

I only listen to openminded Native American people - you have forgotten
what your forefathers have taught your people.....sad to hear.

> Now since you mention Hopi, Just which tribe/clan/sept >is it you are
> referencing?

I do not know, but there are many info about this in books and TV-programmes
about HOPI-prophecies. Are you familiar with the name Floyd Crew Westerman?


--
David Skywalker
Star Wars II - Attack of the Clones
22 May 2002 in Norway

On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 04:47:40 GMT, "David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no> in
sci.astro wrote:

>
>"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@earthlink.net> skrev i melding
>> >You misunderstand. Hopi-Indians,Mayan-Indians and some other has talked
>>
>> Hopi Indians or those pretending to be Hopi?
>
>Floyd Crew Westerman who is one of the most well-known Hopi-indian has said
>anything about their prophecies about END TIMES.
>
>> The only mouths I hear are those that pretend to be Native American...
>
>I guess you do not like the traditional ways of your people?

The Hopi are not "my people".

>> A new day is born on every sunrise. There is no "Myths >native to North
>> America about end times or the end of all times. All those "tales" are
>> imported from Europe.
>
>I guess you are not so informed. I guess you do not be so interested in
>traditional ways of learning of your people.

Why do you think because in am Native American, I give voice to a Hopi
at 'my' fire...

Just because a man says he is shaman, doesn't make his words true... no
matter how many times or how loudly he says his words.

>> >So there are none who could see aura for instance?Communicate with the
>> >spirit world?Clairvoyant people can see something what "other" people
>could
>> >not see. And sense something what other people could not sense.
>>
>> Exactly. Those people are labeled as delusional people. Self Delusion is
>> perhaps the biggest lie of all.
>
>You do not talk as an Native American who is interested in the spiritual
>world. Very sad to hear. Too many Native American people today do NOT listen
>to the traditional ways of learning which is also about spiritual world. Sad
>to hear.

Who are you to judge what is spiritual or not. It is my blood, my
heritage...

>> >> Dreams are not real....
>> >
>> >Vivid dreams or Out-of-body dreams is real. I have had such experience in
>my
>> >life. I am talking from experience.
>>
>> See above, Self Delusion is the largest lie of all.
>
>I only listen to openminded Native American people - you have forgotten
>what your forefathers have taught your people.....sad to hear.

Hah!... My forefathers taught me not to trust Europeans... or maybe the
Europeans taught us not to trust.

>> Now since you mention Hopi, Just which tribe/clan/sept >is it you are
>> referencing?
>
>I do not know, but there are many info about this in books and TV-programmes
>about HOPI-prophecies. Are you familiar with the name Floyd Crew Westerman?

Do you mean Floyd Redcrow Westerman? He isn't Hopi but claims to be born
Dakota Sioux...

my g-grandfathers mothers often was fond of saying:
"Open mouths gather little wisdom"
--
Nokwsi

"Michael L. Cunningham" <bogeystar@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:3CAFF85D.5090903@earthlink.net:

> Nancy Lieder wrote:
>
>> This course requires me to be exhuasted, insulted,
>> broke, and in the situation of being attacked as the
>> messenger BEFORE 2003 and burned at the stake
>> if I'm wrong AFTER 2003. Does anyone think I'm
>> getting rich? Having fun? Can escape in either
>> case? This is the DIFFICULT path, which I as the
>> messenger have chosen.
>
>
> You have no one to blame then after May 2003 for the reception
>
> you'll receive here. It will amount to an internet burning at
> the stake and I think we'll be joined by most of the individuals
> on tt-watch with the bare exception of Jan, Milly, Steve Havas,
> and David Storiey. Jan might be stupid enough to stand behind you.
> Milly most likely will be too embarrassed to acknowledge being
> associated with you. Steve will claim he was duped (foolish as he
> is). David is just too plain stupid to figure it all out on his
> own.
>
If Nibiru doesn't show up, I'll admit I was wrong about it and will surely
be one of those in line to strke the match. :) I think the situation
favors Nibiru and Nancy's Zetas at the moment.

Samsara2003

> On Sat, 20 Apr 2002 06:48:36 GMT, Garrett <Samsara2003@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"Michael L. Cunningham" <bogeystar@earthlink.net> wrote in
>>news:3CAFF85D.5090903@earthlink.net:
>>
>>> Nancy Lieder wrote:
>>>
>>>> This course requires me to be exhuasted, insulted,
>>>> broke, and in the situation of being attacked as the
>>>> messenger BEFORE 2003 and burned at the stake
>>>> if I'm wrong AFTER 2003. Does anyone think I'm
>>>> getting rich? Having fun? Can escape in either
>>>> case? This is the DIFFICULT path, which I as the
>>>> messenger have chosen.
>>>
>>>
>>> You have no one to blame then after May 2003 for the reception
>>>
>>> you'll receive here. It will amount to an internet burning at
>>> the stake and I think we'll be joined by most of the individuals
>>> on tt-watch with the bare exception of Jan, Milly, Steve Havas,
>>> and David Storiey. Jan might be stupid enough to stand behind you.
>>> Milly most likely will be too embarrassed to acknowledge being
>>> associated with you. Steve will claim he was duped (foolish as he
>>> is). David is just too plain stupid to figure it all out on his
>>> own.
>>>
>>If Nibiru doesn't show up, I'll admit I was wrong about it and will
>>surely be one of those in line to strke the match. :) I think the
>>situation favors Nibiru and Nancy's Zetas at the moment.
>>
>>Samsara2003
>
> How does the situation favor this? You've read the arguments.
You've
> seen people do the math. This is a scenario that doesn't even
loosely
> hang together. The physics of it are impossible. The socio-
political
> implications (like the whole world covering it up) are the definition
> of suspect. Even the proponents of Nibiru are hiding behind
fallacies
> and other forms of the lamest rhetoric imaginable. So, Samsara2003,
> how does the situation favor this? How do you draw your conclusion,
> scientifically or otherwise? Do you base your opinion on anything
> real or factual, or are you wont to believe whatever constitutes the
> bullshit new age flavor of the month because you feel alone and
> insignificant in this world? Stand up pal. Think for yourself.
> Strike the match now and get a life.
>
> And no, nanzeta, I'm not giving you or your cult legitimacy by
> posting. I'm providing an alternative point of view for those who
> would give you the opportunity to do some really scary thinking on
> their behalf.
>
Well, now - such hostility. I will not respond likewise...but I WILL
stand up.

I understand that the ideas in Zetatalk are truely shocking for many.
I
don't have time to present all the research that I have done on this
site, but will discuss some of them here. And considering that I am a
gradute student in the field of psychology, I do plenty of my own
thinking, which probably runs contrary to your assumption that everyone
who takes to the Zetatalk message to any degree are ignorant and
gullible cultists....

I think the first problem most people have with Zetatalk is the most
probablamatic and is where most people stop thinking. The existance of
extra-terrestrial life in the universe hsn't even been accepted yet.
However, the UFO conspiracy, for which the evidence so numerous I
hardly
can present it here, is, in my opinion, overwhelmingly in favor real ET
existance, alien abduction, and a real global goverment coverup.

That established...it's easier to accept that they may have abducted
Nancy and given her impants to communicate with her.

To bolster that claim, cropcirlces, which are becoming so numerous that
they are defying explanation, certainly point to an event on the
horizon. Hollywood is finally picking up on this with "Signs-Mel
Gibson" coming out in August with the subtitle "don't claim they didn't
warn us..."[about a poleshift??]). Any of you on Sci.astro going to go
and watch that movie without thinking about Nancy?? :) (mr cunningham,
are you listening?)

The Chilbolton formation even has a pic of Nancy's Zetas in it!
(http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/arecibo.html)

Cropcircles an obvious hoax, you say??? Well, it certainly would have
to
be or otherwise - aleins WOULD EXIST...what choice does the scientific
community have but to claim it is a hoax - they're backed in to a
corner...it really doesn't matter HOW good the evidence is. I think
this formation is genuine and one of the many genuine messages mankind
has been receiving.

Those of the scientific community that are still in doubt about crop
cicle authenticity and keep referring to the widely circuled 1991 Hoax
family that admitted to certain crop ircle forations, should know that
the vast majority of CS's are unexplanable - in size, complexity, and
chemical reactions of crops in the 'authenticate' circles, in
comparison
to the few very simple and poorly constructed human made formations.

There are several very recent and excellent publications of of these
which I have read extensively.

Another big problem with Nibiru is ol' Kepler that would like Planets
to
behave in nice little elipses. There are serious problems with orbital
mechanics that most astronomers don't like to talk about that are very
well illustrated in Ivars Peterson's "Newtons' Clock-Chaos in the solar
system".

"In one way or another, the problem of the solar system's stability has
fascinated and tormened astronomers and mathematicians for more than
200
years. Somewhat to the embarrassment of contemporary experts, it
remains
one of the most perplexing, unsolved issues in celestial mechanics."

I find it amuzing that astronmers on this group can muster the hubris
to
claim that NIBIRU couldn't orbit the way Nancy says it will, when you
can't even explain such a basic and fundamental component of modern
astro-physics.

Admittedly one of the most difficult (for me) to accept notions is the
Zetan idea of orbital mechanics which gives Nibiru an exponential
increase in orbital velocity as it approaces the solor system. I don't
rule out the possibilty that the very 'small' problems astronmers have
in explaining orbial stability (which I don't think is an insignificant
problem--but a HUGE problem) - could lead to HUGE differences in
accepted orbtial observances of planets with unfamiliar orbits. It's
at
least a possibilty.

I think the most stunning evidence of all is Immanuel Veliskovsky's
"Earth in Upheveal". Without getting in to the evidence presented in
this book, as well as his book "Worlds in COllision". I've come to the
conclusion that there really no good explanations for Ice Ages - and
Hapgoods evidence backs up that of Veliskovskys.

All in all, there is certainly a hell of a lot of work that would go in
to discrediting ALL of these occurances and paint a nice 'safe'
portrait
of earth geographic history to my own satisfaction.

Listen, I KNOW zetatalk is controversial, to say the least. I FULLY
understand the absolutely mindblowing ramifications of the realities on
that sight if even bothering to consider them. I think I favor the
existance of Nancy's Zetans alone much more than I would favor Nancys
site itself.

I will go to war with anyone here who wants to tell me that we live in
a
universe where we are the only intelligent life form and that
temperature inversion is what's responsible for crop circles - because
that's the sorry state of affairs that exist right now in conservative
scientific circles that are filled with admittedly bright, yet rigid
thinking professionals who have very little regard for that beyond the
scope of what science allows for.

I don't know if Nibiru is out there - but it's a matter that I have
been
taking increasingly seriously over the last 4 years. I blew off
zetatalk in 1998 when I first ran in to it despite my avid interest in
ufology. But just think for a moment if UFO's are real. If that is
true, without a doubt, Zetatalk would seem much more likely. It would
thus paint a picture of reality that would come as the greatest shock
to
human civilization in the history of mankind--(okay so we're throwing
around some big ideas here ;)). The point is - the message is so
profound that it can not be accepted.

As I have quoted in a previous post, Dr Allen Hynek's letter to Science
magazine,

"I have begun to feel that there is a tendency in 20th Century science,
to forget that there will be a 21st Century science, and indeed a 30th
Ventury science, from which vantage points our knowledge of the
universe
may appear quite different than it does to us. We suffer from temporal
provincialism, a form of arrogance that has always irritated
posterity."

>I hope you live to be one
> hundred years old and that, when your final day does ultimately
> arrive, you'll look back on a life well-lived--and not squandered on
> this Nibiru crap and other time and energy sinks that are just like
> it. Just a thought...

I do hope to live a long life, and I tell you what...I choose in my
life
what is and is not significant and make decisions as to what is wise
and
what is foolish. I have strong beliefs in many different areas of life
and one of my strongest is the belief that people should be allowed to
think independently. What harm is it if I "waste my time" with
Nibiru,,
anyways. If anything, I've increased by 10-fold my knowledge of
geology, rekindeled an old interest I have in astronomy, and made me
think alot about the world we live in.

I have the utmost respect for those in the scientific community and
will
pity them if Nancy is proven true, as most scientific circles will be
turned on their head and rewritten. But at least they will then be
introduced to a little concept called HUMILITY.

I'm not a scientist and not bound to think in the confines of what
science allows for. But in anycase I feel completely entitled to my
opinion of all of this. It's the way I see it.

I certainly hope Nancy is a hoaxer because if not, we're all in for a
rough ride next year, for sure. If she's not, how many of you are
going
to email her and thank her for her efforts?

Regards,

Samsara2003