Planet X- Your OWN Mind
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 12:08:23 -0600
From: Nancy Lieder <zetatalk@zetatalk.com>
Subject: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368164

To those who would say these postings comes from a cult leader, I will
post a long-standing ZetaTalk writing, done in the early days of
sci.astro debates, 1997, on thinking for oneself, allowing autonomy in
others, empowering autonomy in others, granting information so that
others can do their own thinking, etc. Something cults and the
Shepherds of Sheep of sci.astro do NOT want you to do, but ZetaTalk has
always treated as a prime directive. Self autonomy. Self choice. Free
thinking. Right to know. Free choice.

Students who think for themselves are on the right
track, when they grope into areas that are not
discussed or presented in school as they sense that
they are only being given part of the picture, when
they reject rigid explanations they have been given
of how things work, or explanations that were based
on only part of the puzzle and not the whole. This
can never be wrong, but they are treated otherwise.
The student is expected to accept the rigid
explanation and toss away any new pieces of the
puzzle they discover because it upsets the rigid
explanation. Thus the anger of professors when they
are asked questions that seem to counter or contradict
the going theory. In truth, more bright students, the
thinking type, leave school than stay in, and those
that stay in are in pain.

Where most humans like to think of themselves as
intelligent creatures, and even the only such creature
so gifted in God's creation, they are more often
willing to accept the conclusions of others than to
think for themselves. This is because emotionally
 they are children. Look to the discussion on why
the planets continue to revolve as an example. It's
Newton's law. Once motion starts it continues
unless stopped. When there is obvious
contradiction to this so-called law, which in fact is
not law but only describes behavior, the children
are discombobulated. It is not that Newton cannot
be challenged, it's that the children cannot think
 for themselves.

Look about you, at how small children deal with
the complexities of life. They ask their parents to
explain, and whatever reason is given out becomes
the answer, is repeated to other children, and is
angrily defended. The child needs the parent there
to explain matters, and the emotional overtone of
desperation overrides any capacity for logical
thought the child may possess. Having been raised
 to the level of gods, the parents can do no wrong,
until adolescence arrives and new gods are clung to
with the same desperation - gang leaders, movie
stars, athletes. Most adult humans, grownup on the
 outside only, are still children on the inside,
clinging to whomever acts like a self-proclaimed
god by either claiming to take care of the adult
child or claiming to have the answers.

Scientific principles, once stated by such a god,
are not allowed to be challenged unless this is
done by another god. No matter how illogical
the scientific principle becomes, the precepts of
the religion are repeated mindlessly, and any
challenge to this devotion meets hostility. How
dare you challenge the god's laws! This tendency
 to behave as a mindless child is most dramatized
in scientific communities, where logic and the
ability to think matters through is assumed. In
stark contrast to what humans expect from their
scientists, the adult child prates the laws of their
gods and refuses to put obvious contradictions
alongside of these laws. They look the other way.
 They throw insults. They walk off in a huff.
Anything but be forced to grow up and think for
themselves!
 ZetaTalk, Independent Thinking
 (http://www.zetatalk.com/beinghum/b68.htm)
From: tholen@AntiSpam.ham
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 19:09:05 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368176

Nancy Lieder writes:

> To those who would say these postings comes from a cult leader, I will
> post a long-standing ZetaTalk writing, done in the early days of
> sci.astro debates, 1997, on thinking for oneself, allowing autonomy in
> others, empowering autonomy in others, granting information so that
> others can do their own thinking, etc. Something cults and the
> Shepherds of Sheep of sci.astro do NOT want you to do, but ZetaTalk has
> always treated as a prime directive. Self autonomy. Self choice. Free
> thinking. Right to know. Free choice.

Something else you've treated as a prime directive, Nancy: lying.

You lied about NEAT being headquartered in Hawaii. I corrected that
error of yours, yet you persisted and claimed that NEAT is headquartered
in Hawaii, which makes it a blatant lie.

You lied about me being associated with NEAT. I corrected that error
of yours, yet you persisted and claimed that I am associated with NEAT.

You've never presented any evidence for your claims, but have pretended
that by virtue of working in Hawaii, I must be associated with NEAT,
which is illogical in the extreme, given that I'm not associated with
Castle and Cooke, Alexander and Baldwin, Hawaiian Airlines, American
Airlines, Sheraton Hotels, Hilton Hotels, Sears, Macy's, or JCPenney,
yet they all have operations in Hawaii.

Hiding the truth from followers is something that cult leaders do,
Nancy.
From: sarahmac@hotpop.com (Sarah Mc)
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: 6 Apr 2002 16:41:39 -0800
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368231

Nancy Lieder (ZetaCult High Priestess) <zetatalk@zetatalk.com>
 wrote in message news:<3CAF3997.1C8CDD84@zetatalk.com>...

> To those who would say these postings comes from a cult leader, I will
> post a long-standing ZetaTalk writing, done in the early days of
> sci.astro debates, 1997, on thinking for oneself, allowing autonomy in
> others, empowering autonomy in others, granting information so that
> others can do their own thinking, etc. Something cults and the
> Shepherds of Sheep of sci.astro do NOT want you to do, but ZetaTalk has
> always treated as a prime directive. Self autonomy. Self choice. Free
> thinking. Right to know. Free choice.

This from the High Priestess of Information suppresion/manipulation
herself.

Funny how you masterfully took over the TT-watch discussion group, by
allowing Jan to call for a vote, then you sending out the votes, and
writing the options yourself (new, in addition to those asked for by
Jan). Then you mailed them out, only to those peoplethat you felt
would vote in your favor, and put Jan in as a "moderator". When the
votes came back, you counted them, then procliamed that you, Milly and
Jan would be the new "MODERATORS" of TT-watch. In reality, the three
of you took over in a coup, and now edit, remove and ban members who
post messages that you disagree with in their content.

Is that autonomy for the users? Is that allowing free choice, or free
thinking? Is that allowing the right to know?

No, it's censorship and information manipulation/suppresion. That
whats called a cult, Cult Leader. No one censors your messages here.
You claim this group consists of "disinformation artists" when you're
the biggest violator on this newsgroup.

You intentionally manipulate information, edit it, select only whats
relevant to you, remove countering opinions, then present it as
evidence and proof. You intentionally hide information from your cult
members so as to not allow them a free choice.

Why don't you answer the questions that have been asked of you?

Because you're a lousy, stinking, irresponsible, Cult Leader. A scam
artist, and a con artist. That's all, you'll never be anything else.

>

(ZetaCult propaganda snipped)
From: milly@webtv.net
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:22:50 -0600 (MDT)
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368805


From: sarahmac@hotpop.com (Sarah=A0Mc)
<<Funny how you masterfully took over the TT-watch discussion group, by
allowing Jan to call for a vote, then you sending out the votes, and
writing the options yourself (new, in addition to those asked for by
Jan). Then you mailed them out, only to those peoplethat you felt would
vote in your favor, and put Jan in as a "moderator". When the votes came
back, you counted them, then procliamed that you, Milly and Jan would be
the new "MODERATORS" of TT-watch. In reality, the three of you took over
in a coup, and now edit, remove and ban members who post messages that
you disagree with in their content.>>



In a volunteer organization such as Troubled Times, when someone
complains that something isn't being done properly, they are in effect
volunteering/nominating themselves to do the job better. Since Jan and
I both complained about the disruption to the lists that the current
moderators were largely ignoring, Nancy placed us on the ballot as
volunteers to be new moderators. Nancy herself was already a moderator
of the lists and was re-elected. Nine moderators were elected or
re-elected by a simple majority after being nominated or volunteering
for the positions and one has since resigned, so now there are eight
moderators of the tt-lists who work together to keep the lists a safe
place to discuss the premise of earth changes in our near future and how
to prepare and help others prepare.



-Milly
From: "Greg Neill" <gneillRE@MOVE.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:46:14 -0400

<milly@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:7715-3CB4E56A-107@storefull-2295.public.lawson.webtv.net...

[[ In a volunteer organization such as Troubled Times, when someone
complains that something isn't being done properly, they are in effect
volunteering/nominating themselves to do the job better. Since Jan and
I both complained about the disruption to the lists that the current
moderators were largely ignoring, Nancy placed us on the ballot as
volunteers to be new moderators. Nancy herself was already a moderator
of the lists and was re-elected. Nine moderators were elected or
re-elected by a simple majority after being nominated or volunteering
for the positions and one has since resigned, so now there are eight
moderators of the tt-lists who work together to keep the lists a safe
place to discuss the premise of earth changes in our near future and how
to prepare and help others prepare.
]]

So who was allowed to vote? The moderated members?
From: sarahmac@hotpop.com (Sarah Mc)
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: 10 Apr 2002 23:27:55 -0700

milly@webtv.net wrote in message news:<7715-3CB4E56A-107@storefull-2295.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
> From: sarahmac@hotpop.com (Sarah?Mc)
> <<Funny how you masterfully took over the TT-watch discussion group, by
> allowing Jan to call for a vote, then you sending out the votes, and
> writing the options yourself (new, in addition to those asked for by
> Jan). Then you mailed them out, only to those peoplethat you felt would
> vote in your favor, and put Jan in as a "moderator". When the votes came
> back, you counted them, then procliamed that you, Milly and Jan would be
> the new "MODERATORS" of TT-watch. In reality, the three of you took over
> in a coup, and now edit, remove and ban members who post messages that
> you disagree with in their content.>>
>
>
>
> In a volunteer organization such as Troubled Times, when someone
> complains that something isn't being done properly, they are in effect
> volunteering/nominating themselves to do the job better. Since Jan and
> I both complained about the disruption to the lists that the current
> moderators were largely ignoring, Nancy placed us on the ballot as
> volunteers to be new moderators. Nancy herself was already a moderator
> of the lists and was re-elected. Nine moderators were elected or
> re-elected by a simple majority after being nominated or volunteering
> for the positions and one has since resigned, so now there are eight
> moderators of the tt-lists who work together to keep the lists a safe
> place to discuss the premise of earth changes in our near future and how
> to prepare and help others prepare.
>
>
>
> -Milly

Geeez, yet another ZetaCult member opens their foolish mouth, this
time, number 3 in charge of the cult.

Hey Milly, someone's looking for you to collect on a bet, hope you
have the money put aside. No matter what your cult leader says, it
will still be worth something next June. Hope Nancy didn't tell you to
empty your bank accounts and send her the cash yet.

Secondly, who died and gave Nancy the right to place you and Jan on
the ballot in the first place? No one asked for you or Jan, no one
made a request that new moderators be placed on the ballot by your
High Priestess.

Maybe Nancy would appreciate our current vice president demanding a
ballot for new Congressmen, since he didn't like the way they were
all voting. Instead of actual elections, he would allow Bush would put
all republicans on the ballot, and only allow republicans to vote.

How's that for one of your ZetaCult analogies?

Now wouldn't that just frost your Cult Leader's kittens?

This is what Nancy calls Service to Self. Isn't that exactly what
Nancy did? The whole torrid affair was Service to Self. In this case,
Service to Nancy. You see, when Nancy does it, it's OK, when her
opponents do it, it's a conspiracy, disinformation, debunking, lying,
cheating, stealing, etc, etc.

Just another example of the mindless following the Cult Leader, no
matter what she says or does. If Nancy said, "Drink the koolaid",
Milly would be the first in line to swallow, no questions asked.

Milly, you're so brainwashed that you'd follow Nancy into the middle
of a tornado if she said it was where the Zetas were going to "lift"
you to the next dimension.
From: sarahmac@hotpop.com (Sarah Mc)
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: 11 Apr 2002 00:01:07 -0700

milly@webtv.net wrote in message news:<7715-3CB4E56A-107@storefull-2295.public.lawson.webtv.net>...


> In a volunteer organization such as Troubled Times, when someone
> complains that something isn't being done properly, they are in effect
> volunteering/nominating themselves to do the job better. Since Jan and
> I both complained about the disruption to the lists that the current
> moderators were largely ignoring, Nancy placed us on the ballot as
> volunteers to be new moderators. Nancy herself was already a moderator
> of the lists and was re-elected. Nine moderators were elected or
> re-elected by a simple majority after being nominated or volunteering
> for the positions and one has since resigned, so now there are eight
> moderators of the tt-lists who work together to keep the lists a safe
> place to discuss the premise of earth changes in our near future and how
> to prepare and help others prepare.
>
>
>
> -Milly

From a TT-watch Moderator, posted to TT-watch on 3/20/2002:

"I apologize in advance for cross posting this lengthy message.

It is with regret that I feel I must take the following actions:

Effective immediately, I resign from the Posse.

Effective immediately, I resign from the Membership Committee of
Troubled
Times, of which I have been the only active member for well over a
year. I
have been maintaining the Inc Membership and Prospect lists all that
time,
including the most recent additions of 3/6/2002 and I have uploaded
them to
the tt-inc files section. Hopefully somebody will take over the
maintenance
of those lists.

These lists and the Inc have been deteriorating for quite a while.
Since
Ron Darby and Sol were driven out, the Inc has been underachieving on
projects and has been completely without recruiting efforts. The
funding
promised when Ron was gone has not materialized; at least, not as far
as
anyone outside the board knows, since there has been no annual report
for
2001 yet. On the side of the lists, the content has also deteriorated
over
time. The tt-forum list has very little activity. The tt-watch list
has
been lively, but mostly not for the right reasons.

Though I have had increasing doubts about this whole organization for
some
time, and especially about the increasingly unbelievable
pronouncements of
the Zetas, I have done my best to do my part to maintain an open and
informative discussion through my moderation efforts. However, the
bogus
votecall to reconstruct the posse was the last straw for me and is the
reason I am resigning my official posts.

First of all, as I said, I have been maintaining the official list of
tt-inc
members and content contributors, based on Nancy's input from her web
wrapping efforts. This should have been the list used to send the
votecall
in the first place (if a votecall were actually required). Yet Nancy
did
not request a copy of this list, and any copy she has is very out of
date.
I know that at least some people who received ballots were not on the
list
of content contributors, and thus shouldn't vote. Also, more people
voted
to maintain the posse roster as is, including Laura, than voted to add
Jan.
Yet Laura is out and Jan is in.

There is a section of ZetaTalk which speaks of statistics and how they
can
be manipulated http://www.zetatalk.com/science/s52.htm .
I can vouch for the truth of this page, as I understand these
techniques due
to my 30 years' employment in the marketing research field as a
software
developer and research manager. To quote from this page:
"Humans have a saying, that one can lie with statistics, because
numbers can
be manipulated to support any argument. If one wants to demonstrate
that the
populace is not starving, one adjusts the threshold where starvation
sets
in. If the numbers run up on one group don't look so good, pick
another
group. If the average is too low or high, go for the median and
arrange to
discard the high or low end. Statistics, done honestly, can make a
statement
like no other, but done dishonestly are deeply deceptive because the
readership believes the numbers have been run up honestly....However,
they
are likewise being increasingly challenged. What was included? How did
you
arrive at these figures? The squeeze is on. An easy out in these
circumstances is to make the formulas more complicated. Then the
common man
can't understand and the factors can be argued endlessly."

To be blunt, Nancy fudged the votecall results to give her the desired
result, that of installing Jan as censor of the lists. Since his
installation into the posse, Jan has begun weeding out dissenting and
skeptical voices, effectively ending discussion about Nibiru on
tt-watch.
Jan's attitude and approach are dangerous. In his own words from 2/26
speaking of STO camps: "A full democracy will be the goal, but since
there
may be undecided or even STS persons in the camp with their own
agendas, the
necessary dictatorship will be in place to protect against any STS
actions
like takeover attempts." The war cry of the dictator. STO indeed. The
prospect of Nibiru passing by and flipping our planet in fourteen
months
from now or not is too important an issue to stifle discussion on.
Thus, I am ending my official capacity with Troubled Times and the
lists,
and have created another list called ZetaAstro, where free discussion
on ALL
sides of the Nibiru / Planet X issue are welcome and encouraged. I
want
both believers and nonbelievers to participate, as I believe critical
thinking and in-depth analysis of an issue requires all sides of an
issue to
be examined. I will be issuing invitations shortly (if you don't get
one,
it's an oversight, you just joined recently, or Yahoogroups is just
being
slow). I hope you will at least consider joining, and read the group
introduction and first welcome message. It explains where I'm coming
from
in more detail. If you don't want to participate, so be it, delete the
invitation and go in peace.
I want to thank the many of you who I continue to count among my
friends
here, especially the old posse. Clipper, please remove my moderator
privileges from all the lists and unsubscribe me from tt-posse. Please
leave me subscribed to the other lists. I will remain around, just way
in
the background and not in an official capacity.
God bless you all."

His signature witheld by my choice.

Now, there's an honest man, Milly. A man with dignity and honour. A
man that takes pride in a free society, and one that wouldn't quelch
the opinions, observations, or information of others. One with the
ability and the foresight to see through the smoke and mirrors of the
ZetaCult, and especially those of Nancy and Jan.

It's not *what* you and the cult believe Milly, it's **how** you
attempt to undermine the freedoms, opinions, applied information, and
self-expressions of others that would enter the ZetaCult's lair. It's
how information is suppressed, tainted, hidden and bastardized. It's
how people are manipulated, overseered and mainstreamed into the
system.

That's what makes it a cult. That's what makes your situation
dangerous. That's why there's so much opposition to you and yours,
outside your little group of cult members.

It's time to see the light Milly, and it's not the light of Niburu
you'll be seeing come next May.
From: Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org>
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:16:17 +0000 (UTC)
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368850

milly@webtv.net wrote:
>
> for the positions and one has since resigned, so now there are eight
> moderators of the tt-lists who work together to keep the lists a safe
> place to discuss the premise of earth changes in our near future and how
> to prepare and help others prepare.

In other words, block all "troublesome" opinions and questions.

That is not discussion, it is mutual masturbation.

--
Bill Nelson (billn@peak.org)
From: "Michael L. Cunningham" <bogeystar@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:21:10 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368270

Nancy Lieder wrote:

> To those who would say these postings comes from a cult leader, I will
> post a long-standing ZetaTalk writing, done in the early days of
> sci.astro debates, 1997, on thinking for oneself, allowing autonomy in
> others, empowering autonomy in others, granting information so that
> others can do their own thinking, etc. Something cults and the
> Shepherds of Sheep of sci.astro do NOT want you to do, but ZetaTalk has
> always treated as a prime directive. Self autonomy. Self choice. Free
> thinking. Right to know. Free choice.


You failed to mention banning individuals from tt-watch for speaking
their own minds, having your lap dog Jan moderate on tt-watch, calling
for a bogus election and place your hand picked lap dogs in position as
moderators, insulting and slandering certain members on tt-watch (does
disbarement and mention of a criminal record for a certain lawyer come
to mind Nancy? All false information made up by you.)

Yes, self choice, free thinking, free choice, etc.

This from a Cult Lieder.

--
Michael L. Cunningham
So Cal SleeperS
2001 Grand Am GT http://www.n-body.net/registry/bogeystar/
e-mail bogeystar@earthlink.net
web site http://home.earthlink.net/~bogeystar/

Remembering the World Trade Center Massacre
Sept. 11, 2001

Cry Havoc! ...and let slip the dogs of war!

Visit the LX50 Web Site and join in our Discussion Forum!

"There are two infinite things: universe and human stupidity.
And I'm not sure of the former".
Albert.
From: "Jan" <not@home.com>
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 10:13:19 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368294

"Michael L. Cunningham" <bogeystar@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3CAFF3C4.8000604@earthlink.net...
> Nancy Lieder wrote:
>
>> To those who would say these postings comes from a cult leader, I will
>> post a long-standing ZetaTalk writing, done in the early days of
>> sci.astro debates, 1997, on thinking for oneself, allowing autonomy in
>> others, empowering autonomy in others, granting information so that
>> others can do their own thinking, etc. Something cults and the
>> Shepherds of Sheep of sci.astro do NOT want you to do, but ZetaTalk has
>> always treated as a prime directive. Self autonomy. Self choice. Free
>> thinking. Right to know. Free choice.
>
>
> You failed to mention banning individuals from tt-watch for speaking
> their own minds,

For disruption. If you come to my house and insult me or my family, of
course I ask you to leave. If you don't leave willingly, I will have to use
whatever means I need to get you out.

When the demonstrators try to disrupt the WTO meetings, do you call that
speaking their own minds or disruption?

> having your lap dog Jan moderate on tt-watch,

Nobody ever had me doing anything. Whatever I do and believe in is solely
based my own will and intellect.

> calling for a bogus election and place your hand picked lap dogs in
> position as moderators,

Nancy never asked for the moderation, I did.

> insulting and slandering certain members on tt-watch

Meaning that you got pissed because I called you a disruptor, and more
pissed because some of your postings on TT-Watch seem to disappear in thin
air?

> does disbarement and mention of a criminal record for a certain lawyer
> come to mind Nancy? All false information made up by you.

Said lawyer himself posted on a different Yahoo list:
"I actually have that little indiscretion on record in my distant past (the
bar bit, I mean). I'm fully reformed now, however, I have renounced my past
sins and am working in an entirely different field [...]"

In the discussion referred to, both said lawyer and Nancy were using wording
I would not personally approve of. Nancy once used the word "disbarred", for
which she later apologized.

Anyhow, as far as I know, he is banned from entering the US due to that "bar
bit".

> Yes, self choice, free thinking, free choice, etc.

Which you & others do you best to prevent here on sci.astro.
Not very successful, I can see.

Regards,
Jan
From: sarahmac@hotpop.com (Sarah Mc)
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: 7 Apr 2002 06:50:58 -0700
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368323

"Jan" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<2ZUr8.1093$dm4.23555@news2.ulv.nextra.no>...
> "Michael L. Cunningham" <bogeystar@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3CAFF3C4.8000604@earthlink.net...
> > Nancy Lieder wrote:
> >
> >> To those who would say these postings comes from a cult leader, I will
> >> post a long-standing ZetaTalk writing, done in the early days of
> >> sci.astro debates, 1997, on thinking for oneself, allowing autonomy in
> >> others, empowering autonomy in others, granting information so that
> >> others can do their own thinking, etc. Something cults and the
> >> Shepherds of Sheep of sci.astro do NOT want you to do, but ZetaTalk has
> >> always treated as a prime directive. Self autonomy. Self choice. Free
> >> thinking. Right to know. Free choice.
> >
> >
> > You failed to mention banning individuals from tt-watch for speaking
> > their own minds,
>
> For disruption. If you come to my house and insult me or my family, of
> course I ask you to leave. If you don't leave willingly, I will have to use
> whatever means I need to get you out.

Yes, in the eyes of the Cult, "disruption" and "disinformation" is the
same as whhat's refered to as the "truth" on the outside. So any
method of removing the "truth" is an acceptable policy, including
editing of content, revising predictions, banning members and editing
out opinions and questions.

>
> When the demonstrators try to disrupt the WTO meetings, do you call that
> speaking their own minds or disruption?

No one has made a physical attack on any of your cult members Jan.
Stop stooping to Nancy's level. Or is it that you've read so much of
her nonsense you write just like she does? Oh, I forgot. "Just look to
Nancy as a person to emulate as an STO"

>
> > having your lap dog Jan moderate on tt-watch,
>
> Nobody ever had me doing anything. Whatever I do and believe in is solely
> based my own will and intellect.

That's pure, unadulterated bullshit Jan.

No one asked for you or Milly to be added to the posse either, did
they?

Who made up the ballot that included you and Milly as new moderators?

Who selected who the ballots would be sent to?

Who counted the ballots upon return?

Who ended up as the new moderators of TT-watch?


This is true, you and Nancy had it all planned together. You ask for
removal of the "posse", she casts a vote and adds your name and
Milly's to the list without anyone's approval, then mails out the
ballots to whomever she feels will vote in your (and her) favor. Then
SHE counts the votes and declares herself, Milly and you the new
moderators of TT. The next step is that she moves out of the limelight
(unsubscribes from TT-watch) and leaves you in charge to watch over
the content, opinions and information being posted to TT-watch. In
effect, isolating herself from any criticism, questions or comments.

In effect, you and Nancy have reduced TT-watch to the local weather
station.

>
> > calling for a bogus election and place your hand picked lap dogs in
> > position as moderators,
>
> Nancy never asked for the moderation, I did.

See above how you and Nancy intentionally took over TT-watch to
protect her and the cult's "bible".

The final result being that you, Nancy and Milly controlling the
content, opinions and facts being posted to the TT=-watch site,
therefore manipulating the information available to the cult members
on the group.

>
> > insulting and slandering certain members on tt-watch
>
> Meaning that you got pissed because I called you a disruptor, and more
> pissed because some of your postings on TT-Watch seem to disappear in thin
> air?

Here we have Jan admitting that he edited content on the TT-watch site
for the "betterment of the cult". In other words, he didn't want to
die hard cult members to see anything that might change their minds.

Meaning you intentionally single out members of the group that may not
aggree with Nancy, in other words, die hard Cult members like
yourself. If they do not follow the gospel of the high priestess, they
will be removed. Ever wonder why no one posts to the group any more
Jan? They're all in fear that their post will be taken the wrong way
by you, and they'll be crucified by the new storm troopers of
TT-watch. Be made an example of for the other cult members.

More fear tactics, typical cult. Jan, you're Nancy's lap dog and a
brainwashed nutcase. Now you're the official opinion editor and
information blocker doing Nancy's bidding for her, while she hides
saying she's "too busy". In other words, spamming usenet with cult
recruitment posts.


>
> > does disbarement and mention of a criminal record for a certain lawyer
> > come to mind Nancy? All false information made up by you.
>
> Said lawyer himself posted on a different Yahoo list:
> "I actually have that little indiscretion on record in my distant past (the
> bar bit, I mean). I'm fully reformed now, however, I have renounced my past
> sins and am working in an entirely different field [...]"

So, it was necessary for Nancy to post this information on her
TT-watch group in order to prove her point? Is her information so
poorly supported that she needs to resort to name calling and mud
slinging to get her point accross? No one mentioned that the person
involved was one of the board members as well - one of Nancy's closest
- just like you Jan........ best watch your back, your Cult Leader has
an pretty poor track record with her officers. They seem to dissappear
on a regular basis. Don't forget, those in the know are the **most**
dangerous to a cult leader.

>
> In the discussion referred to, both said lawyer and Nancy were using wording
> I would not personally approve of. Nancy once used the word "disbarred", for
> which she later apologized.
>
> Anyhow, as far as I know, he is banned from entering the US due to that "bar
> bit".

And why was it so important that Nancy bring all this out into the
public eye Jan? Was it because she was threatened, fearful that the
cult would start to break up because the "person" involved had
mentioned one of Nancy's competitors? Money would be lost, donations
would slip? Books and videos wouldn't sell? Was she so fragile minded
and insecure that she had to attack this person and Mark Hazelwood
like a rabid dog? Were those the actions of a sane person, a person
that you would follow so blindly as to be the next in line to receive
that kind of violent attack?
>
> > Yes, self choice, free thinking, free choice, etc.
>
> Which you & others do you best to prevent here on sci.astro.
> Not very successful, I can see.

Incorrect Jan. Unlike you and Nancy, no one edits the posts, moderates
this group, or bars people from posting or reading here Jan. Another
typical cult remark - attack your opponent for the same thing you're
being accused of. Directly out of the Scientology handbook.

Doesn't work here Jan, everyone can see through your smoke and
mirrors. You're a failure at it Jan, admit it. You can't defend your
cult leader, and you can't defend yourself any longer. The truth is
out Jan, you've been marked. You can try to accuse others of what
you've done, but everyone will see through your nonsense.

This isn't TT-watch Jan. Try as you may, you can't silence your
opponents, opinions, facts, or the truth here.


>
> Regards,
> Jan
From: Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org>
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 07:20:18 +0000 (UTC)
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368437

Sarah Mc <sarahmac@hotpop.com> wrote:

> This is true, you and Nancy had it all planned together. You ask for
> removal of the "posse", she casts a vote and adds your name and
> Milly's to the list without anyone's approval, then mails out the
> ballots to whomever she feels will vote in your (and her) favor. Then
> SHE counts the votes and declares herself, Milly and you the new
> moderators of TT. The next step is that she moves out of the limelight
> (unsubscribes from TT-watch) and leaves you in charge to watch over
> the content, opinions and information being posted to TT-watch. In
> effect, isolating herself from any criticism, questions or comments.

> In effect, you and Nancy have reduced TT-watch to the local weather
> station.

You are being overly generous. It is more on the order of the National
Enquirer - which also is mostly rumor and unsubstantiated stories.

The local weather station relies on observed data for weather predictions.

--
Bill Nelson (billn@peak.org)
From: sarahmac@hotpop.com (Sarah Mc)
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: 8 Apr 2002 07:21:46 -0700
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368463

Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org> wrote in message news:<a8rgbi$iqn$10@quark.scn.rain.com>...
> Sarah Mc <sarahmac@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
> > This is true, you and Nancy had it all planned together. You ask for
> > removal of the "posse", she casts a vote and adds your name and
> > Milly's to the list without anyone's approval, then mails out the
> > ballots to whomever she feels will vote in your (and her) favor. Then
> > SHE counts the votes and declares herself, Milly and you the new
> > moderators of TT. The next step is that she moves out of the limelight
> > (unsubscribes from TT-watch) and leaves you in charge to watch over
> > the content, opinions and information being posted to TT-watch. In
> > effect, isolating herself from any criticism, questions or comments.
>
> > In effect, you and Nancy have reduced TT-watch to the local weather
> > station.
>
> You are being overly generous. It is more on the order of the National
> Enquirer - which also is mostly rumor and unsubstantiated stories.
>
> The local weather station relies on observed data for weather predictions.

Error acknowledged, Bill :o)

I forgot about the occasional links to rumormillnews and rense.com
(and others) that are posted with the intent to provide "proof" of the
cult's incoming invisible projectile.
From: Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 12:17:31 -0700
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 10:13:19 GMT, "Jan" <not@home.com> in sci.astro
wrote:

>"Michael L. Cunningham" <bogeystar@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:3CAFF3C4.8000604@earthlink.net...
>> Nancy Lieder wrote:
>>
>>> To those who would say these postings comes from a cult leader, I will
>>> post a long-standing ZetaTalk writing, done in the early days of
>>> sci.astro debates, 1997, on thinking for oneself, allowing autonomy in
>>> others, empowering autonomy in others, granting information so that
>>> others can do their own thinking, etc. Something cults and the
>>> Shepherds of Sheep of sci.astro do NOT want you to do, but ZetaTalk has
>>> always treated as a prime directive. Self autonomy. Self choice. Free
>>> thinking. Right to know. Free choice.
>>
>>
>> You failed to mention banning individuals from tt-watch for speaking
>> their own minds,
>
>For disruption. If you come to my house and insult me or my family, of
>course I ask you to leave. If you don't leave willingly, I will have to use
>whatever means I need to get you out.

a Yahoo group is not your house. It is labeled a non-moderatred public
*discussion* forum. Asking questions or pointing out the Lieder's
errors, misrepresentation, and out right lies is not disruption.

I hope you liked your Yahoo Groups.

BTW what is the current Tax status of your group?

>When the demonstrators try to disrupt the WTO meetings, do you call that
>speaking their own minds or disruption?

I wouldn't have called it disruptions. In the US such demonstrations are
legal and supported under the constitution.

>> having your lap dog Jan moderate on tt-watch,
>
>Nobody ever had me doing anything. Whatever I do and believe in is solely
>based my own will and intellect.

You have no intellect if you believe what Nancy says.

>> calling for a bogus election and place your hand picked lap dogs in
>> position as moderators,
>
>Nancy never asked for the moderation, I did.

Bogus...

>> insulting and slandering certain members on tt-watch
>
>Meaning that you got pissed because I called you a disruptor, and more
>pissed because some of your postings on TT-Watch seem to disappear in thin
>air?

More like he is upset about the continuation of the con game... the
innocent people that are being scammed.

Wake up and smell the manure, Jan.

>> does disbarement and mention of a criminal record for a certain lawyer
>> come to mind Nancy? All false information made up by you.
>
>Said lawyer himself posted on a different Yahoo list:
>"I actually have that little indiscretion on record in my distant past (the
>bar bit, I mean). I'm fully reformed now, however, I have renounced my past
>sins and am working in an entirely different field [...]"
>
>In the discussion referred to, both said lawyer and Nancy were using wording
>I would not personally approve of. Nancy once used the word "disbarred", for
>which she later apologized.
>
>Anyhow, as far as I know, he is banned from entering the US due to that "bar
>bit".

>> Yes, self choice, free thinking, free choice, etc.
>
>Which you & others do you best to prevent here on sci.astro.
>Not very successful, I can see.

I don't see anyone's messages or opinions being canceled here on usenet.


--
Nokwsi
From: Michael L Cunningham <bogeystar@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 20:20:23 GMT
Xref: sn-us sci.astro:368497


Jan wrote:

>For disruption. If you come to my house and insult me or my family, of
>course I ask you to leave. If you don't leave willingly, I will have to use
>whatever means I need to get you out.
>
But it isn't "your" house. It's a closed forum that only allows posting
to the party (cult) line.

>>having your lap dog Jan moderate on tt-watch,
>>
>
>Nobody ever had me doing anything. Whatever I do and believe in is solely
>based my own will and intellect.
>
Every post that seemed to go against your train of thought, you called
for that person's removal. Nancy
has you jumping through hoops and doing tricks.

>>calling for a bogus election and place your hand picked lap dogs in
>>position as moderators,
>>
>
>Nancy never asked for the moderation, I did.
>
I'm sure you and Nancy had those little back room meetings to discuss
how best to wrestle control of
tt-watch from the folks who originally started it. Congratulations! You
took control! Zeta cult's finest
hour.

>>insulting and slandering certain members on tt-watch
>>
>
>Meaning that you got pissed because I called you a disrupter, and more
>pissed because some of your postings on TT-Watch seem to disappear in thin
>air?
>
Not only me but anyone who wanted proof for the cult's theories. I defy
you to present ANY verifiable
science from the Zeta Talk web site other than Nancy's simplified muses.

>>does disbarement and mention of a criminal record for a certain lawyer
>>come to mind Nancy? All false information made up by you.
>>
>Said lawyer himself posted on a different Yahoo list:
>"I actually have that little indiscretion on record in my distant past (the
>bar bit, I mean). I'm fully reformed now, however, I have renounced my past
>sins and am working in an entirely different field [...]"
>
>In the discussion referred to, both said lawyer and Nancy were using wording
>I would not personally approve of. Nancy once used the word "disbarred", for
>which she later apologized.
>
>Anyhow, as far as I know, he is banned from entering the US due to that "bar
>bit".
>
Yeah and you were called on the carpet by certain members about slander.
Still you effectively silenced another
disrupter from "your" forum.

>>Yes, self choice, free thinking, free choice, etc.
>>
>Which you & others do you best to prevent here on sci.astro.
>Not very successful, I can see.
>
You're going to reimburse those people who send their life savings
moving their families to "safe" areas based
on Nancy's "channeling" and based on a CCD image where she claims noise
is her planet not to mention the
20th magnitude problem! I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when the
lawsuits start rolling in although you're
rather safe from US prosecution in Norway.

--
Michael L. Cunningham
So Cal SleeperS - 2001 Grand AM GT
e-mail bogeystar@earthlink.net
From: Wally Anglesea™ <wanglese@spbigpondam.net.au>
Subject: Re: Planet X: Your OWN Mind
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 00:59:45 GMT

On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 20:20:23 GMT, Michael L Cunningham
<bogeystar@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Jan wrote:
<SNIP>

>>Anyhow, as far as I know, he is banned from entering the US due to that "bar
>>bit".
>>
>Yeah and you were called on the carpet by certain members about slander.
>Still you effectively silenced another
>disrupter from "your" forum.
>
>>>Yes, self choice, free thinking, free choice, etc.
>>>
>>Which you & others do you best to prevent here on sci.astro.
>>Not very successful, I can see.
>>
>You're going to reimburse those people who send their life savings
>moving their families to "safe" areas based
>on Nancy's "channeling" and based on a CCD image where she claims noise
>is her planet not to mention the
>20th magnitude problem! I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when the
>lawsuits start rolling in although you're
>rather safe from US prosecution in Norway.


Don't let that stop anyone. The media can be a very powerful tool
when they smell a nice anti-cult story brewing. And there's good
media in Norway, just as much as anywhere else :-))

--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."