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From: Thomas McDonald <tsmac@wwt.net>

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Subject: OT: Escalation of Zetababble?

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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:40:37 -0600

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Dear old-timers here,

First, I apologize for this OT posting. However, I have a

question for folks who were reading this NG during the

Hale-Bopp/Heaven's Gate period. I only post this because

I've begun to become a little worried about some posts I've

read in another NG.

In the last couple of days, a poster using the netonym

"Metatron" has been posting to alt.prophecies.nostradamus.

(Ya, I know. I'll consider myself chided.) At first it was

the usual apn "woo-woo" alternative spiritual stuff. Then M

started integrating some of Nancy Lieder's zetababble, but

without attribution. If any of you want to check on apn,

the bit that triggered my increased concern was the thread

entitled, "Message from my friend Master Kuthumi".

What got my attention today, however, was a post in which M

started to talk about reincarnation, the coming breakdown of

3D space, the idea that most people will resist leaving this

reality for the coming, better reality, etc. There were

implications, ISTM, that people in the next couple of years

were going to be able to choose to leave these bodies for a

new existence in a higher vibration plane, etc.

It sounded to me sort of like the thin edge of the Heaven's

Gate wedge, the beginning of an attempt to gain adherents to

a Marshall Applewhite-like cult.

I'm posting this on this NG because, IIRC, some of you who

remember Nancy's postings during Hale-Bopp seemed to connect

her, or at least her ideas, to the Heaven's Gate cult's ideas.

If anyone could comment on this, I'd appreciate it. I'll

also be looking in the Google archives, and any suggestions

about that would be useful, too.

What concerns me about this is that Nancy has been pretty

quiet here of late. I'm wondering if she has chosen this

time to begin posting, on a group not familiar with her,

things that may have been posted here before, that were in

the suicide cult direction. After all, she's got almost

exactly a year and a half before her "Planet X" is supposed

to show up, and that might be what she thinks she needs in

terms of a lead-time. If this is consonant with her posting

behavior last time, I'd like to know.

Yours, a little sheepishly,

Tom McDonald

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From: The Small Kahuna <person@company.com>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: OT: Escalation of Zetababble?

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:27:50 -0700

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Xref: sn-us sci.astro:354423

Thomas McDonald wrote:

>

> Dear old-timers here,

>

> First, I apologize for this OT posting. However, I have a

> question for folks who were reading this NG during the

> Hale-Bopp/Heaven's Gate period. I only post this because

> I've begun to become a little worried about some posts I've

> read in another NG.

This in and of itself is interesting because Nancy seems to be pretty

consistent in her posting style. She has always stuck to sci.astro for

the "debates". Those of you who are familiar with Troubled Times might

also know that Nancy sticks to posting on TT-Watch, much to the anoyance

of the moderators. This cross posting would be inconsistent.

> In the last couple of days, a poster using the netonym

> "Metatron" has been posting to alt.prophecies.nostradamus.

> (Ya, I know. I'll consider myself chided.) At first it was

> the usual apn "woo-woo" alternative spiritual stuff. Then M

> started integrating some of Nancy Lieder's zetababble, but

> without attribution. If any of you want to check on apn,

> the bit that triggered my increased concern was the thread

> entitled, "Message from my friend Master Kuthumi".

If you have read ZetaTalk you would know that Nancy has stated that

Nostradamus was a fraud. Suddenly posting to a group supposedly

supporting Nostradamus would be a reversal on a clear position.

> What got my attention today, however, was a post in which M

> started to talk about reincarnation, the coming breakdown of

> 3D space, the idea that most people will resist leaving this

> reality for the coming, better reality, etc. There were

> implications, ISTM, that people in the next couple of years

> were going to be able to choose to leave these bodies for a

> new existence in a higher vibration plane, etc.

Again, if you have read ZetaTalk you would notice that none of these

things are presented. The only point of confusion might be the

discussion of the 4th density universe, but it is clearly stated that

this is not an optional choice, nor does it represent a "breakdown" of

3D space. ZetaTalk refers to a multiverse.

> It sounded to me sort of like the thin edge of the Heaven's

> Gate wedge, the beginning of an attempt to gain adherents to

> a Marshall Applewhite-like cult.

And ZetaTalk specifically warns about this kind of thing where all kinds

of people and forces come out of the woodwork to distract people, cause

fear and panic, and gain the kinds of followers you describe for the

kinds of nefarious purposes you are concerned about.

> I'm posting this on this NG because, IIRC, some of you who

> remember Nancy's postings during Hale-Bopp seemed to connect

> her, or at least her ideas, to the Heaven's Gate cult's ideas.

Wow, is this a stretch, although I agree with the observation. The only

connection is a discussion on Hale-Bopp. You have gone to the bank,

probably. My bet is that Marshall Applewhite also probably went to the

bank. Maybe even the same bank! I'll bet both of you shopped for

food. Maybe you even read some of the same magazines or newspapers.

Probably a connection, doncha think?

> If anyone could comment on this, I'd appreciate it. I'll

> also be looking in the Google archives, and any suggestions

> about that would be useful, too.

>

> What concerns me about this is that Nancy has been pretty

> quiet here of late. I'm wondering if she has chosen this

> time to begin posting, on a group not familiar with her,

> things that may have been posted here before, that were in

> the suicide cult direction. After all, she's got almost

> exactly a year and a half before her "Planet X" is supposed

> to show up, and that might be what she thinks she needs in

> terms of a lead-time. If this is consonant with her posting

> behavior last time, I'd like to know.

This is *so* inconsistent and out of character and would require a

complete reversal of many of the things Nancy has gone on record for.

While there have been long and detailed exchanges on narrow points (what

Hale-Bopp was or wasn't or the whole magnitude

2-11-19-pick_your_own_number fiasco about the visibility of PX and where

the "magnification knob" on the observatory telescopes is located) most

everything else has been (pretty much) consistent. Certainly she has

never advocated any kind of cultish behavior in spite of the baseless

accusations that have been posted here. Many comparisons have been made

between ZetaTalk and Heaven's Gate but there is no data to back it up.

Many people here have accused her of trying to form a cult but again,

there is no data to back it up. For a newsgroup that starts with 'sci',

the lack of supplied examples and data should demonstrate the case.

> Yours, a little sheepishly,

>

> Tom McDonald

Why don't you challenge "Metatron" on his own turf? Why raise the issue

here? Afraid there will be a stampede in this news group to be the

first to the Kool-Aid? While I agree that "Metatron" is a potential

threat and could easily be trolling for victims, I would bet Real Good

Money its not Nancy. She's wierd and anoying but not a psychopath, and

there is quite a volume of material to go through should one be inclined

to go on a DATA SEARCH.