From: fourth_quartz@yahoo.com (Event Horizon)

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Zetacult's Site Bias...

Date: 14 Apr 2002 07:15:27 -0700

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To this day I continue to meet people who don't know what "usenet" or

"newsgroups" are. I tell them they are missing out on a vast and

terrific forum pertaining to just about anything they can imagine.

It's what I've used most in my six yrs on the internet.

Folks unaware of usenet who look at the Zetatalk usenet updates are

getting a biased picture of what's being posted. I just now noticed

this, and is yet another thing that needs to be made public about her

info.

My post "Zetacult member expatriates" *is* listed in her usenet

extraction area...thing is, only one small post is listed there (there

were many responses) and conveniently the post is entirely biased;

instead of showing what was really going on in that specific thread

(she didn't even include my original post in any context at all),

Nancy chose to list *only one* post that made her and her followers

look good.

Yet another reason I'm finding to completely disregard everything

Zetatalk has ever preached. The whole thing is becoming so obvious.

out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!pd2nf2so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!

sea-feed.news.verio.net!quark.scn.rain.com!not-for-mail

From: Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:39:02 +0000 (UTC)

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David Storoy <keeping@clean.no> wrote:

> "Event Horizon" <fourth_quartz@yahoo.com> skrev i

>> Nancy chose to list *only one* post that made her and >her followers

>> look good.

> Since it was a post that did not look good for you.....then you take it very

> personally and screams like a child who wants to get more attention. But you

> do not deserve more attention than the other who are screaming,whining and

> are disappointed.

What is bothersome is that Lieder will pick a statement by someone, then

tack on a bunch of stuff from her pages - and put that on her "newsgroups"

page as if that were the end of the discussion. She never posts any

followups or posts that point out the errors in what she wrote.

This is misleading to the reader of the pages and dishonest. An honest

person would include all the posts, not just edited portions.

--

Bill Nelson (billn@peak.org)

Message-ID: <3CBEF394.4DECB771@zetatalk.com>

Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:25:56 -0500

From: Nancy Lieder <zetatalk@zetatalk.com>

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Xref: sn-us sci.astro:370044

In Article <a9javq$rni$2@quark.scn.rain.com> Bill Nelson wrote:

> Nancy Lieder <nancy@zetatalk.com> wrote:

>> Even if I did, copyright fair use allows a quote, especially of

>> something PUBLICALLY posted so the world can read it,

>> publically posted by YOU. If I quote you, and respond to

>> your quote, then I can put this on my web site included as a

>> copy of my posting.

>

> It does NOT allow you to use the quote in a manner that is

> misleading. That is the main problem I have with your

> messages on that site. You post a statement by someone - out

> of context - then append a reply.

Oh please! Tell this to Limbaugh, or Pat Robinson, or all the ZetaTalk

bashers who have merry with this rule endlessly here on sci.astro

alone! Not taken out of context? As in the Hale-Bopp issue, where it

is endlessly repeated that the Zetas said "it's not a comet" without

mentioning the YEAR of the statement? They said it was a nova on

August, 1995 and the ESO subsequently found that what was being pointed

to, "outgassing" more than a year before it ought, had no comet

emissions! Then they said on June 17, 1996 that the supposed orbit was

being connected to where a real comet located long before by the NEAT

program, which tracks thousands of dark objects, was due to appear.

http://www.zetatalk.com/poleshft/p46.htm

Out of context? Once again, what's good for the GOOSE is not to be good

for the GANDER. You think that NASA has a link to where NASA bashers

opinions might be found, including the ZetaTalk site? The White House

links to the Bush Watch site? Is this not out of context to OTHERS

OPINIONS, which is your real complaint. YOUR opinion, in full, the

jokes, the endless praddle that waters down any thread I start with what

the debunkers hope will hopelessly discourage anyone from following the

thread. So sorry that a list of relevant postings, for those who wish

to hear what the ZETAS had to say, on the ZETATALK exists! Tisk.

The current Earth Changes, predicted with stunning accuracy by ZetaTalk

in 1995, are no joke. The fact that an infrared object was sighted and

imaged at the coordinates given by ZetaTalk months and even years

earlier is also stunning and no joke. The implications for mankind, who

is NOT getting the truth from NASA and the Hubble or the White House is

more than immense and life threatening. It affects every human on

Earth, massively. Whether they live or die, and if they live the

quality of their life afterwards. But the agencies paid for by your tax

dollars, and the government that is supposed to be looking out for your

interests rather than Enron interests, or the paid debunkers, or the

self-appointed Shepherd of the Sheep of sci.astro, would rather YOU not

know what THEY know. Now that's fair, right?

So I'll do what no OTHER web site does and point to where the readerhip

can read everyone else's opinion.

Since postings are made every few days, readers are currently checking

for new "postings as of" pages, at the Spring 2002 page:

http://www.zetatalk.com/usenet/use20021.htm

The following is now (or will be within the hour) the text at the top of

this and the two pages covering 2001 Spring and Fall posting dates:

Since this is the ZetaTalk web site, the list of Usenet postings

referenced is almost exclusively those postings that include

ZetaTalk or Nancy responses or initiatives. Usenet archives

such as Google

[http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=sci.astro]

provide easy access to all postings made by anyone, regardless

of substance, so for those wishing to view everything said on

the matter by anyone else, simply plug the Message or Article

number or thread Subject into the search field.

Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!

sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!wesley.videotron.net!wagner.videotron.net.POSTED!not-for-mail

From: "Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

References: <3CBEF394.4DECB771@zetatalk.com>

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

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"Nancy Lieder" <zetatalk@zetatalk.com> wrote in message

news:3CBEF394.4DECB771@zetatalk.com...

> In Article <a9javq$rni$2@quark.scn.rain.com> Bill Nelson wrote:

> > Nancy Lieder <nancy@zetatalk.com> wrote:

> >> Even if I did, copyright fair use allows a quote, especially of

> >> something PUBLICALLY posted so the world can read it,

> >> publically posted by YOU. If I quote you, and respond to

> >> your quote, then I can put this on my web site included as a

> >> copy of my posting.

> >

> > It does NOT allow you to use the quote in a manner that is

> > misleading. That is the main problem I have with your

> > messages on that site. You post a statement by someone - out

> > of context - then append a reply.

>

> Oh please! Tell this to Limbaugh, or Pat Robinson, or all the ZetaTalk

> bashers who have merry with this rule endlessly here on sci.astro

> alone!

Unlike ZetaBabble websites, here in sci.astro every post to

every thread is there for all to see and judge the context.

It is not carefully pruned and manipulated to show one

person's personal agenda at the expense of honor and truth.

[claptrap snipped]

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From: David Paterson <david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:32:47 +0000 (UTC)

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fourth_quartz@yahoo.com (Event Horizon) wrote:

>Folks unaware of usenet who look at the Zetatalk usenet updates are

>getting a biased picture of what's being posted. I just now noticed

>this, and is yet another thing that needs to be made public about her

>info.

>

>My post "Zetacult member expatriates" *is* listed in her usenet

>extraction area...thing is, only one small post is listed there (there

>were many responses) and conveniently the post is entirely biased;

>instead of showing what was really going on in that specific thread

>(she didn't even include my original post in any context at all),

>Nancy chose to list *only one* post that made her and her followers

>look good.

Hmmm.... I've just checked the Zetatalk pages for my postings, and was

rather dismayed to find that a) they were there, and b) they had been

edited heavily, in some cases completely distorting my intended meaning.

What surprised me about this is that I mailed Nancy in January asking

her to remove these pages, and she agreed to do so. Since then she has

in fact added additional postings, rather than removing them as she said

she would.

Unfortunately I've been very busy at work lately and haven't had time to

either read or respond to many of the PX threads, nor to check if the

messages had in fact been removed from the site. I'll be more diligent

in the future :-)

I'd urge everyone who gets involved in these discussions, whichever side

of the fence you sit, to do a search on the Zetatalk site (using their

handy search engine) to see how well represented you are. By comparing

her versions to the original postings archived on Google you can see how

accurate and/or honest the versions on the site are.

If, like me, you feel your words or meaning have been misrepresented, or

been used in an inappropriate way, you might also consider asking Nancy

to remove your postings from her web site.

DP

news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail

From: David Paterson <david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:38:31 +0000 (UTC)

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David Paterson <david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com> wrote:

>If, like me, you feel your words or meaning have been misrepresented, or

>been used in an inappropriate way, you might also consider asking Nancy

>to remove your postings from her web site.

PS - I should add that I've mailed her again to "remind her" that she

did agree to remove the pages, and asking that she now gets rid of them.

I also included a handy list of URL's so she wouldn't have any

difficulty finding them :-)

DP

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Message-ID: <3CB9E6D7.2090009@wwt.net>

From: Thomas McDonald <tsmac@wwt.net>

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Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

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Xref: sn-us sci.astro:369370

David Paterson wrote:

>David Paterson <david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com> wrote:

>

>>If, like me, you feel your words or meaning have been misrepresented, or

>>been used in an inappropriate way, you might also consider asking Nancy

>>to remove your postings from her web site.

>>

>

>PS - I should add that I've mailed her again to "remind her" that she

>did agree to remove the pages, and asking that she now gets rid of them.

>

>I also included a handy list of URL's so she wouldn't have any

>difficulty finding them :-)

>

>DP

>

David,

Rots o Ruck. Nancy needs all the borrowed credibility that she can get.

She seems to have two purposes for posting on the NGs.:

1) To stimulate reply posts that she can 'mine' for the purpose of

editing and posting

on her websites;

2) To troll for people somehow disaffected from mainstream (read,

'real') science and/or]

sprituality, in order to funnel them into her little brood.

IOW, it is a complete misunderstanding of NanZetas' purposes to

suppose that she is posting here for any reasons other than the two I

give above. She, and possibly her flock, appear to wish to use the

'sci.' newsgroup quotes in order to help themselves think that there is

some scientificsupport for their delusion.

Nancy has twisted and edited some of my posts to suit her purposes.

I called her on it, but that post, of course, never wound up on her

sites. I suppose I should do what you're doing, and ask her to either

post my whole posts (and the sci.astro context in which they were made),

or to remove all of my posts. Perhaps if more people did it, she'd be

forced to comply, or her ISP might be lobbied to pull her sites. IIRC,

some of her discussions are on a Yahoo group, whose charter she may be

violating with the censoring she, Jan, and perhaps others are doing.

Don't imagine, however, that Nancy et al. will change their ways.

Nancy, herself, is in too deep, and her current desperation is proof

that she understands the hole she's put herself in.

Tom McDonald

From: Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:28:13 -0700

Organization: Officer's Mess

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On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:38:31 +0000 (UTC), David Paterson

<david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com> in sci.astro wrote:

>David Paterson <david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com> wrote:

>

>>If, like me, you feel your words or meaning have been misrepresented, or

>>been used in an inappropriate way, you might also consider asking Nancy

>>to remove your postings from her web site.

>

>PS - I should add that I've mailed her again to "remind her" that she

>did agree to remove the pages, and asking that she now gets rid of them.

>

>I also included a handy list of URL's so she wouldn't have any

>difficulty finding them :-)

>

cc a copy of everything to her web provider...

Put DMCA demand in the subject line.

--

Nokwsi

From: Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:27:19 -0700

Organization: Officer's Mess

Message-ID: <m7pjbussk5herh16mfd63j0a0h6kp72bjd@4ax.com>

Keywords: None

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On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:32:47 +0000 (UTC), David Paterson

<david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com> in sci.astro wrote:

>fourth_quartz@yahoo.com (Event Horizon) wrote:

>

>>Folks unaware of usenet who look at the Zetatalk usenet updates are

>>getting a biased picture of what's being posted. I just now noticed

>>this, and is yet another thing that needs to be made public about her

>>info.

>>

>>My post "Zetacult member expatriates" *is* listed in her usenet

>>extraction area...thing is, only one small post is listed there (there

>>were many responses) and conveniently the post is entirely biased;

>>instead of showing what was really going on in that specific thread

>>(she didn't even include my original post in any context at all),

>>Nancy chose to list *only one* post that made her and her followers

>>look good.

>

>Hmmm.... I've just checked the Zetatalk pages for my postings, and was

>rather dismayed to find that a) they were there, and b) they had been

>edited heavily, in some cases completely distorting my intended meaning.

>

>What surprised me about this is that I mailed Nancy in January asking

>her to remove these pages, and she agreed to do so. Since then she has

>in fact added additional postings, rather than removing them as she said

>she would.

>

>Unfortunately I've been very busy at work lately and haven't had time to

>either read or respond to many of the PX threads, nor to check if the

>messages had in fact been removed from the site. I'll be more diligent

>in the future :-)

>

>I'd urge everyone who gets involved in these discussions, whichever side

>of the fence you sit, to do a search on the Zetatalk site (using their

>handy search engine) to see how well represented you are. By comparing

>her versions to the original postings archived on Google you can see how

>accurate and/or honest the versions on the site are.

>

>If, like me, you feel your words or meaning have been misrepresented, or

>been used in an inappropriate way, you might also consider asking Nancy

>to remove your postings from her web site.

Send her Web Provider a DMCA Demand Letter with a copy of your prior

correspondence. Because she admitted she was wrong and promised to

remove your material, it makes your case stronger.

With luck she could lose the site...

You also need to start including a disclaim that will stop Nanzeta from

abusing your articles.

--

Nokwsi

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From: David Paterson <david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:35:26 +0000 (UTC)

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Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Send her Web Provider a DMCA Demand Letter with a copy of your prior

>correspondence. Because she admitted she was wrong and promised to

>remove your material, it makes your case stronger.

>

>With luck she could lose the site...

>

>You also need to start including a disclaim that will stop Nanzeta from

>abusing your articles.

Thanks for the info Bob.

I'll give her a week's grace to put it right by herself (since I've said

as much in my mail to her). If she hasn't removed the pages by then

I'll certainly do as you advise.

It's not so much that I mind people using my usenet postings in a

legitimate way, it's her editing of them in ways which distort my

intended meaning, and the attempt to use them to lend credence to her

nonsensical ideas.

If she was willing to post entire discussions, unedited, then I'd be

happy for my contributions to appear. That however doesn't seem to be

Nancy's way of doing things.

Cheers,

DP

From: Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:45:43 -0700

Organization: Officer's Mess

Message-ID: <uf8kbugh6b5ojsu49slq9ghpghlvpo1c1h@4ax.com>

Keywords: None

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References: <6aee72f3.0204140615.3eb7a387@posting.google.com> <d0bjbu89d4slhp6mh4j2f05rppio6uilf6@4ax.com>

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On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:35:26 +0000 (UTC), David Paterson

<david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com> in sci.astro wrote:

>Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net> wrote:

>

>>Send her Web Provider a DMCA Demand Letter with a copy of your prior

>>correspondence. Because she admitted she was wrong and promised to

>>remove your material, it makes your case stronger.

>>

>>With luck she could lose the site...

>>

>>You also need to start including a disclaim that will stop Nanzeta from

>>abusing your articles.

>

>Thanks for the info Bob.

>

>I'll give her a week's grace to put it right by herself (since I've said

>as much in my mail to her). If she hasn't removed the pages by then

>I'll certainly do as you advise.

>

>It's not so much that I mind people using my usenet postings in a

>legitimate way, it's her editing of them in ways which distort my

>intended meaning, and the attempt to use them to lend credence to her

>nonsensical ideas.

>

>If she was willing to post entire discussions, unedited, then I'd be

>happy for my contributions to appear. That however doesn't seem to be

>Nancy's way of doing things.

You could also send a note to Yahoo groups and the Wisconsin Attorney

General. I think she could even be currently prosecuted for fraud and

misrepresentation. Just the fact she doesn't have tax free status and

isn't a charity. Donations to her are not are not currently deductible.

--

Nokwsi

newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!feed-ev1!propagator-sterling!

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From: Bill Nelson <billn@spock.peak.org>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:34:50 +0000 (UTC)

Organization: Bill's eclectic interest group

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Bob Officer <bobofficers@earthlink.net> wrote:

> You could also send a note to Yahoo groups and the Wisconsin Attorney

> General. I think she could even be currently prosecuted for fraud and

> misrepresentation. Just the fact she doesn't have tax free status and

> isn't a charity. Donations to her are not are not currently deductible.

Has the IRS ruled on that yet? I know that they had until March 31st to

send in the supporting paperwork - to obtain permanent non-profit status.

If that status is denied, then Lieder is going to get a nasty surprise,

a tax bill for all those past years. Both she and all the officers can

be held responsible - and the IRS will attach personal property, if

necessary, to satisfy the debt.

--

Bill Nelson (billn@peak.org)

news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news2.epix.net!news1.epix.net!not-for-mail

From: "zarathu" <tzarathu@epix.net>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

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She also edits her own stuff. Anyone with a copy of the whole zeta talk

manual from back in about 97 will find that there's lots of stuff that is

different in the current volume.

In article <d0bjbu89d4slhp6mh4j2f05rppio6uilf6@4ax.com> , David Paterson

<david.paterson@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com> wrote:

> fourth_quartz@yahoo.com (Event Horizon) wrote:

>

>>Folks unaware of usenet who look at the Zetatalk usenet updates are

>>getting a biased picture of what's being posted. I just now noticed

>>this, and is yet another thing that needs to be made public about her

>>info.

>>

>>My post "Zetacult member expatriates" *is* listed in her usenet

>>extraction area...thing is, only one small post is listed there (there

>>were many responses) and conveniently the post is entirely biased;

>>instead of showing what was really going on in that specific thread

>>(she didn't even include my original post in any context at all),

>>Nancy chose to list *only one* post that made her and her followers

>>look good.

>

> Hmmm.... I've just checked the Zetatalk pages for my postings, and was

> rather dismayed to find that a) they were there, and b) they had been

> edited heavily, in some cases completely distorting my intended meaning.

128.39.3.168!uninett.no!dax.net!juliett.dax.net!not-for-mail

From: "David Storoy" <keeping@clean.no>

Newsgroups: sci.astro

References: <6aee72f3.0204140615.3eb7a387@posting.google.com>

Subject: Re: Zetacult's Site Bias...

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"Event Horizon" <fourth_quartz@yahoo.com> skrev i

> Nancy chose to list *only one* post that made her and >her followers

> look good.

Since it was a post that did not look good for you.....then you take it very

personally and screams like a child who wants to get more attention. But you

do not deserve more attention than the other who are screaming,whining and

are disappointed.

>The whole thing is >becoming so obvious.

It is obvious that you are insulted of Nancy Lieder and her responses to you

etc...

--

David Skywalker

Star Wars II - Attack of the Clones

22 May 2002 in Norway

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Message-ID: <3CB9F9A3.70303@wwt.net>

From: Thomas McDonald <tsmac@wwt.net>

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David Storoy wrote:

>"Event Horizon" <fourth_quartz@yahoo.com> skrev i

>

>>Nancy chose to list *only one* post that made her and >her followers

>>look good.

>>

>

>Since it was a post that did not look good for you.....then you take it very

>personally and screams like a child who wants to get more attention. But you

>do not deserve more attention than the other who are screaming,whining and

>are disappointed.

>

>>The whole thing is >becoming so obvious.

>>

>

>It is obvious that you are insulted of Nancy Lieder and her responses to you

>etc...

>

>--

>David Skywalker

>Star Wars II - Attack of the Clones

>22 May 2002 in Norway

>

>

David,

I hope you grow up to be embarassed by posts such as these. You may

even, one day, understand the reasonably spectacular level of irony in

this post of yours. With luck, you'll some day have the maturity to

laugh at yourself a bit because of your posts here.

On the other hand, if you aren't a teenager, it may be too late for

you already.

Tom McDonald