Session Start: Fri Jun 14 13:46:02 2002
*** Now talking in #Troubled_Times
<reti> hello jenna
<JennaJ> hello
<ged> i don't know, although i once had a dream where i looked out my front window and saw a tropical place, this was before i heard about planetx
<reti> i was just asking ged if he thinks that planet x will be back next may, what do you think?
<JennaJ> i'm wondering what Nancy will say if it doesn't show up
<reti> there are only two ways tyo approach it, disappear quietly or claim that the zeta's did something to change its trajectory
<reti> who knows...
<reti> what do you think?
<JennaJ> after I saw how she handled the Chandra Levy thing, I'm thinking she will somehow push the apocalyptic date forward
<reti> what happenned with that?
<reti> i'm knew to this.....
<reti> lol
<reti> Im new
<JennaJ> it appears zetatalk was mistaken
<reti> what did they say.....?
<JennaJ> Levy was wandering around Mexico with amnesia
<reti> so what does she say now?
<JennaJ> she was in Mexico, then abducted by gangsters, killed after a failed attempt to ransom Gary Condit, then her body moved secretly to the park in D.C.
<reti> hmmmm
<reti> I guess I wont go buying land anytime soon
<JennaJ> i think she was banking on the body never being found...oops
<reti> well, do you think she is a fraud then?
<reti> its one to believe something and be mistaken, its another to knowing perpetrate a fraud
<JennaJ> not exactly, but I'm still trying to figure that out
<reti> where do you live?
<JennaJ> Las Vegas, NV
<reti> is that a "safe" place?
<JennaJ> In zetatalk scenario, safe only with food, water, and electricity working
<JennaJ> which is true
<reti> otherwise you would bake
<JennaJ> over a hundred degrees outside right now
<reti> nice, my dad lives in phoenix
<reti> so im fammlair
<JennaJ> even hotter
<reti> yep
<reti> they are toast under zeta scenario
<JennaJ> agreed
<reti> what do you do in vegas?
<JennaJ> insurance underwriting
<reti> god, it was like 90 in seattle yesterday.. thats unusual
<reti> its nice and cloudy again though
<JennaJ> that sounds almost unbelievable
<reti> ;)
<reti> really?
<JennaJ> i have relatives there, never seen it 90 except July--rare
<reti> yes, it really rare
<reti> where do the relatives live?
<JennaJ> Bellevue and north in Marysville
<reti> i guess we are all dead under zeta scenario
<reti> this is a bad area, no?
<JennaJ> we are all dead anyway...just a matter of time
<reti> ok, under teh zeta scenario we will die at teh same time, no?
<JennaJ> I haven't seen any evidence of Mt Raineer awakening
<JennaJ> have you?
<reti> what do you mean?
<JennaJ> earthquake swarms under the mountain, ground temperture increase, unusual venting from the top
<reti> yes, there was something a year ago... hold on
<JennaJ> mudslide perhaps
<reti> yeah, a huge one
<JennaJ> not much confirmation of zetatalk
<reti> so zetatalk said what?
<JennaJ> the mountain should show more evidence of increased activity under their scenario
<reti> before planet x?
<JennaJ> yes
<JennaJ> also mt. hood and shasta
<JennaJ> both are quiet
<reti> you sound bitter. Did you believe this once and then become skeptical?
<reti> btw, I have no opinon either way
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<JennaJ> no, but I think that the "zetas" may not simply be voices in Nancy's head
<reti> so you think she is just making it all up?
<JennaJ> no, she has help
<reti> please elaborate
<JennaJ> I suspect that the aliens do exist, but are here to de-stablize things.  I don't believe they can physically manifest...yet
<reti> thats interesting
<JennaJ> i think they are working on it, like the U.S. was once working on getting men to the moon.
<JennaJ> but, possibly they need us to fight against each other.  Weaken us before they can physically manifest
<reti> what do the zetas say about "nordics"?
<JennaJ> i didn't get to that yet
<JennaJ> Zetas coming down to earth, similar to armed men stepping into the cage with a bengal tiger and locking the door behind them
<reti> dead tiger?
<JennaJ> yes, tiger eventually bleeds to death from gunshot wound.  However, the armed man is dead in less than 15 seconds from a single hit of tiger claw
<JennaJ> In other words, I don't think they will come here until we are very weak
<reti> well, I'd toss a grenade and close the door
<medfield> hehe
<medfield> see reti has no balls, but he gets the job done :)
<JennaJ> he he
<reti> lol
<JennaJ> notice how Zetas are against NWO
<JennaJ> also against missle defense
<reti> they are?
<medfield> as anyone should be
<reti> well maybe the missle defense
<medfield> im against all things other than neutrals
<JennaJ> perhaps, but only a unified front could defeat mass invasion
<reti> they dont invade jenna, not their style... They are symbiots
<reti> they will make us more like them
<reti> but I think that they are acting in their own interest, my theory is that they are getting messed up by our nuclear experimenets/weapons/energy
<JennaJ> possible, i think this may have accelerated their plans
<reti> we will all be one big happy hive
<JennaJ> not until our strongest governments collapse or are destroyed
<reti> nah, why do that, we will become them slowly
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<reti> our govts then serve them
<reti> much less messy
<reti> and hey, maybe they like it hot, why not get us to heat up the planet for them
<JennaJ> american indians were stripped of their lands etc. slowly...but mass invasion occurred first
<reti> yeah, but that was a human operation, these beings are much more advanced
<JennaJ> i'm not so sure about that
<reti> ?
<JennaJ> in fact, I'm not so sure that their IQs are much higher than our own
<reti> i dont agree
<reti> if they were as dumb as we are they would have came in shooting
<JennaJ> it is the schooling, the history, the experiences
<reti> they are cloned for certain tasks, some of them are undoubtedly dumber... but the ones in charge, well we are pets to them
<JennaJ> american indians did not have inferior brains...their culture and history were their weakness
<reti> i see your point
<JennaJ> we deliberately gave them blankets infested with disease..we knew it would wipe them out.  They had no clue
<reti> but I belive that they intentiaonally create bodies for themselves, and if they were more advanced tham we, they would have figured out genetics by then and would be making super brainaic zetas
<JennaJ> but not because they were mentally inferior
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<JennaJ> possible, but we don't know their limits
<reti> no, see I think that the native american was superior and thatsd why they died off
<medfield> reti did you get that music? or any?
<reti> dont confuse intelligence with ruthlessness
<reti> I have 36% of it
<reti> :)
<medfield> of one song?
<reti> yes
<medfield> strange
<medfield> heh
<JennaJ> I see no evidence that the zetas are not ruthless
<medfield> but hey
<medfield> atleast its coming
<medfield> I see no evidence that they exist either, but you know shit happends :)
<reti> I didnt say that they arent, I was talking about the native americans
<JennaJ> true
<reti> lol
<reti> true
<reti> if they were ruthless then why not just start killing
<JennaJ> they can't
<reti> why not?
<reti> oh ic
<reti> because they want the planet
<reti> and we would turn it into a nuclear dump if they did
<JennaJ> technology problem...it took us quite a while to land men on the moon
<JennaJ> but they will have to land massively
<reti> well, they seem to have no problems zipping in from god knows where
<reti> why not engineer a killer virus
<JennaJ> i don't think they want us dead exactly
<JennaJ> we are to be used
<reti> they want slaves?
<reti> why do you think they are here?
<JennaJ> take a look at what they say about the inhabitants of planet x
<medfield> nancy didnt say that, she said any beings coming from that planet will not hurt us, if they come at all they will be here to torment
<reti> same as stichin?
<JennaJ> of course, but suppose the "zetas" are revealing some of the truth about themselves when making up the annunaki stuff
<reti> but why?
<reti> it seems that by preparing people to resist through nancy that people will onlt be more prepared to fight them off
<JennaJ> they are the ones who feel the earth is a "swamp" which is not worth losing a lot of lives in an invasion.  So, they need to undermine our leaders etc first
<reti> if its a swamp why bother?
<reti> it makes no sense
<JennaJ> it makes sense if your world is dying off
<JennaJ> out of resources, etc.
<reti> and....
<reti> why go to a swamp
<reti> its a huge universe
<JennaJ> perhaps its the only place they can reach
<reti> perhaps
<reti> but unlikely
<JennaJ> perhaps we weakened the natural barriers between our realities with all of our nuclear experiments
<JennaJ> lots of possibilities
<reti> perhaps
<reti> yes there are
<JennaJ> but, in short, i don't trust zetatalk motivations
<JennaJ> it seems to manipulate through fear
<reti> I just dont think that they are going to "invade"
<reti> they will absorb
<reti> i have an open mind about their motivations
<JennaJ> i think they would prefer absorbtion, if that fails then force will be applied
<JennaJ> one step at a time, conserving resources until absolutely necessary
<reti> hmmm
<JennaJ> you don't drop bombs until your spies can't accomplish things more subtly
<reti> well i can see your point, i just think that they are way more advanced than we are
<reti> so they dont need bombs
<reti> or force
<reti> maybe the zetas killed chandra levy in an attempt to discredit nancy?
<reti> lol
<JennaJ> our history shows that many disputes are ultimately solved through force, why would any other place be different?
<JennaJ> we wish it to be different, but it may be our delusions
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<reti> true, im not saying that they are not sinsister, only that they dont need bombs
<reti> or invasions
<JennaJ> not yet, at least
<reti> im saying that they would never need that, just like we can fight viruses with vaccines , and we dont have to follow the example of other animlas that have to physically hold an animal in its maw
<reti> hi bobhope
<bobope> hi
<reti> in our maw that is
<reti> wwe are having a spirited discussion about the motivations of the grays and the chandra levy case
<JennaJ> true, they could eventually have us sterilized or similar plan, but it still adds up to "against our will"
<reti> yes, but dont you think that we are being offered a choice. I mean most abductees say that they are shown future scenarios and told that we habe to stop the rape of the planet. Maybe they are giving us a choice, reform or die
<reti> its more of a choice than we gave the taliban
<JennaJ> I agree.  We gave native americans a similar choice.  Play by our rules or be dead.
<reti> nah, it was "play by our rules and die"
<reti> i mean the smallpox blankest, where was the choice there
<reti> trail of tears etc
<reti> 53 minutes medfeirld :)
<JennaJ> what i mean is that the few indians who did what they were told lived to "adjust" to our society and exist today.
<reti> they do?
<JennaJ> But the vast majority were wiped out
<reti> what about the cherokee
<JennaJ> yes, they live on reservations
<reti> they played by the rules and were screwed over anyway
<JennaJ> no political power, isolated
<reti> killed
<JennaJ> exactly, that is what I see as a possibility for us humans if we cannot mount a workable defense
<reti> i got that
<JennaJ> if they can't yet physically manifest, we still have time
<reti> but I think that if we grow up and cut our nails we wouldnt be faced with termination
<reti> whats this physical stuff, people see them all the time
<reti> I have
<reti> they seemed solid enough
<reti> but that was years ago, still no armada
<JennaJ> apparitions are not solid
<reti> it was solid
<reti> not an ap;aration
<reti> 3d baby
<reti> in the flesh
<JennaJ> then you must realize that zetatalk is a fabrication
<reti> im not prepared to answer that question
<reti> I dont know enough about it
<JennaJ> zetatalk says aliens can only appear to humans in their unconscious mind
<JennaJ> not real and solid
<reti> hmmm, cant speak to that. I have seen them plenty of times
<JennaJ> ahhh, but zetatalk says the "seeing" is just in your mind
<reti> most of the time it is how you describe it, but not always
<reti> all seeing is in your mind
<reti> Jenna, How did you come to the idea that they cant materialize yet? Is that zetatalk as well?
<JennaJ> what i mean, is that zetatalk says you cannot physically contact aliens while awake
<JennaJ> no, not zetatalk, observation
<reti> of what?
<JennaJ> of the fact that there is no physical evidence other than video, photo, audio recording etc.
<reti> does anyone else in here have an opinon on this?
<medfield> you know I do
<medfield> but
<medfield> I dont talk about it because its a neutral opinion
<medfield> whihc means.....
<medfield> BLAH
<reti> what about you bob?
<medfield> hehe
<medfield> that shit download yet
<medfield> that is weird
<reti> 48%
<reti> so jenna, you think that there was no roswell crash?
<reti> bob lazar is lying?
<JennaJ> ahh, i was just getting to that
<JennaJ> Roswell could have been an alien crash.  But remember it was a CRASH.  Which is also considered a failure in test pilot terms
<reti> so they can only materialize through a "failure"
<reti> they could invade by a massive failure
<JennaJ> what i mean is that they had their version of Apollo 13
<reti> I think that apollo 13 was fully materialized
<JennaJ> my point is that it was a failure
<JennaJ> until they get it right...invasion is not a viable option
<reti> well, its interesting, this materialization idea, because it really dovetails nicely with the area 51 caller
<reti> the one on art bell
<reti> the infamous one
<reti> did you hear?
<JennaJ> no
<reti> too bad
<reti> you would agree with him
<reti> tell her what happenned medfield
<reti> he knows the technical side
<JennaJ> we assume that they are radar invisible and able to evade our military aircraft because they have stealth etc., but they may have not been physically present
<JennaJ> only the pilots see the "ship" in their mind
<JennaJ> missles have nothing to lock onto
<reti> the area 51 caller said that the more people who know about them and think about them the more readily they wil be to carry on theri nefarious plan
<reti> that they were not from "another planet"
<JennaJ> i suspect that this is a part of it
<reti> while he was talking to art the GE satelitte receiver that was carryin the show went offline
<reti> GE could not explian... said it had never happenned b4
<reti> the call ended with a horrifying shriek
<reti> but we couldnt hear cuz the show was off the air, art did nt know the show was off the air so he kept talkin
<reti> until the shriek and the line went dead
<reti> this was back in 97
<reti> the guy claimed to have been an enlisted shclep who freaked out when he found out wahat was going on there and had been giving a psych discharge
<reti> he kept saying that he didnt have much time.. them the sattelite went haywire
<reti> he was really freaked out
<reti> anyway, thought i'd pass that alone, cuz his take on was very simmliar to yours
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<reti> damm! celebrities are rare in here
<reti> :)
<medfield> ;p
<medfield> reti ur msg
<medfield> *snif *snif after 2003 this channel will be useless
<medfield> ;p
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<reti> hi samsara
<samsara2003> Hi. What's the topic?
<reti> Jenna and I were having a conversation about the motivations of the greys
<reti> and chandra levy
<samsara2003> Maybe the Grey's are LYING about being STO - and are actually STS...How about that?
<reti> Jenna thinks that the greys are going to invade once they have weakened us
<samsara2003> Hmmm...
<reti> with a huge force of ships
<JennaJ> I agree with samsara2003
<samsara2003> Now let's think about that
<samsara2003> What do they want from us?
<samsara2003> Natural resources?
<samsara2003> Power?
<samsara2003> Our women?
<reti> chandra levy
<samsara2003> lol
<JennaJ> whatever it is, we won't give it up willingly
<medfield> i will ;)
<reti> and thats the problem... real power comes from surrender
<samsara2003> Jenna - seriously - what do you think they'd be after...?
<reti> thats what the native americans have taught me
<JennaJ> uknown. I've been trying to figure that out for years
<samsara2003> Why haven't they done it already?
<reti> i thought they were after our resources?
<samsara2003> And why resort to seceret abduction
<JennaJ> yes, but resources could be almost anything they value.  We wouldn't necessarily value is as much, if at all
<samsara2003> The technology they've already demostrated would be more than enough to make us 'surrender' for their neverending need for 'power'
<JennaJ> Like i said earlier, I don't believe they have the ablility to come here in any signifigant numbers, yet
<JennaJ> i don't think they'
<samsara2003> really? How does that work?
<reti> yeah, they cant materialize yet, right? isn't that what zeta talk says
<JennaJ> i don't think they've demonstrated much of anything yet
<reti> they have contacted millions of americans
<samsara2003> They've demostrated a east coast powergrid shutdown - that was pretty impressive (1964 was that?)
<reti> thats a feat, we are busy people
<JennaJ> so Nancy says
<samsara2003> What prevents them from coming here in huge numbers?
<JennaJ> Same thing that prevents us from colonizing Mars.  Technology obsticle most likely.
<samsara2003> Actually, it's the obsticle that I was really looking for
<samsara2003> What specifically...
<samsara2003> It couldn't be lack of interstellar travel...
<reti> we dont coloze mars cuz there is no money to be made, mabye we are worthless to them as well
<JennaJ> how do you know they are from another star system?
<samsara2003> Ok...I don't know that...
<samsara2003> Where are they coming from?
<reti> but thay are able to travel here from somewher that we cant travel too
<JennaJ> Many possibles, another "dimension" perhaps
<samsara2003> That's actually true...
<samsara2003> 4th
<samsara2003> lol
<reti> :)
<JennaJ> yes, I think they mix some truths with the lie
<samsara2003> They'd still need a planet to live on, though - despite being from another demension, agreed?
<JennaJ> yes
<samsara2003> Ok - so where's this planet?
<samsara2003> Close by in another demension?
<JennaJ> i think its this planet
<samsara2003> Hmm...so they live on this planet in another demension...
<samsara2003> Interesting...
<JennaJ> that's almost what they say at Zetatalk...
<samsara2003> How so?
<medfield> extrademensional beings :)
<JennaJ> they even compare how an alien zetan can be standing in a forest exactly where you are but in 4th density
<JennaJ> its on the website
<samsara2003> The zetas live on Earth in another demension and are lying about them coming from another star system
<reti> they are obviosuly way mpre powerful than we are
<JennaJ> "powerful" is subjective.  Many illusions can be presented
<reti> I've never stood in the forest in the 4th dimension, well maybe once, but I dont want to go there now
<samsara2003> A planet CAN and IS in every demension there is...it spans the entire octave
<JennaJ> he he
<reti> lol
<reti> samsara is right
<JennaJ> yes, i agree
<samsara2003> I wonder, personally, what the earth looks like in 4th density
<reti> so if they are from a nother dimension on the earth why bother taking over a planet they alredy live on
<samsara2003> Is it barren?  Just a few hybrid communities around...?
<reti> lolo0
<JennaJ> If you mean Nancy's zetas, they pretty much describe their homeworld on the website
<JennaJ> poisoned, dead, used up...
<samsara2003> So you're saying that their world their describing on their site is actually the 4th density earth?
<JennaJ> yes, possibly.  Or a close version since they may be skewing the truth about what "density" really is
<reti> Jenna belives it impossible for them to manifest now, that we can only see them in our mind,
<reti> if they could they would slaughter us
<JennaJ> not if we surrendered first
<JennaJ> unconditionally, of course
<reti> true power comes from surrender
<samsara2003> Your attitude assumes a lack of morality and clearly violate the law of non-interference
<reti> the zen of the zetas
<samsara2003> Morality is not forgotten as you progress to a higher state of consciousness... in fact, it becomes enforced...
<samsara2003> If you try to violate that...you are prevented
<JennaJ> zetas want people to believe they "choose" not to interfere when the reality may be that they are "unable" to interfere
<samsara2003> That's not true
<samsara2003> The zetas clearly state that they have been given permission to interfere in order to assist
<JennaJ> it preserves their image of superiority while they work on a technical solution to becoming physical here with us
<JennaJ> be back in a minute
<medfield> http://pile.filepile.org:8080/text/brazils_womens_football_team.html
<medfield> daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn
<samsara2003> Well, Jenna, you certainly are quite suspecious of the Zetas
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<JennaJ> ok, i'm back.  I'm also just as suspicious of our own leaders.  They have most likely been working on defensive measures and kept us all in the dark
<JennaJ> Does anyone here completely agree with nancy/zetatalk?
<samsara2003> I do for the most part
<samsara2003> Better question is what is that you disagree with?
<JennaJ> changing and fudging of visual magnitude of planet x is a big one
<samsara2003> Well...my explanation for that...
<samsara2003> Nancy may have jumped the gun...
<samsara2003> I also think Nancy jumped the gun a bit on the supposed photographic evidence of px
<JennaJ> yes, I agree with that.
<JennaJ> What I find telling, is that zetas left her "out to dry"
<samsara2003> I think that's why she's laying low and not introducing any more evidence until it's almost certain...
<reti> what about mt rainier Jenna?
<JennaJ> nothing going on that I can tell
<reti> is it suppossed to be?
<JennaJ> in Nancy's scenario it should be "re-awakening"
<reti> have you heard of that Samasara?
<samsara2003> I think the most convincing piece of evidence is Velikovsky's World's in Collision & Earth in Upheveal...personally...
<reti> Have you ever considered that Nancy, as a contact might make mistakes jenna. That its not 100% correct
<reti> even edgar cayce was not always right
<JennaJ> of course, but i've noticed that the zetas don't feel like correcting those mistakes
<samsara2003> Those who look at zetatak with a skeptical eye - most ofter look for the first mistake...then the whole thing becomes fakery
<reti> for example?
<JennaJ> example:  the moon does not revolve.  the moon appears larger when it is viewed near the horizon because light rays are bent in a manner by the earth's atmosphere which is a manner unknown to present human science
<JennaJ> the moon appears same size at horizon as it does in center of sky
<reti> have you ever seen a harvest moon?
<JennaJ> of course
<reti> thats pretty big
<JennaJ> optical illusion.  You can prove it by measuring with a round object such as a coin
<samsara2003> Did you know that according to Velikovsky's work "From the Exodus to King Akhnato", the Jewish exodus is put around 1584 B.C.?
<JennaJ> i have not read Velikovsky
<reti> so I dont understand whatis your point about the moon and the zeta's difficulty in accepting fallibility?
<samsara2003> If 2003 is the correct date...and 3,657 is the orbital period of Nibiru...that means that 1654 B.C. would have been the last time it came around
<samsara2003> That's only off by 70 years
<samsara2003> Anything within 75-100 years I'd say is pretty much on the mark
<JennaJ> why would zetas need the written word of an author to prove themselves.  Nancy could just give us the proper explaination.
<samsara2003> Jeanna...just think
<samsara2003> Do you really need that answered?
<JennaJ> no, i already know the answer
<samsara2003> It established credibility...
<samsara2003> Nancy doesn't know squat - she's just a logistics operator
<reti> what r u saying the zeta's claimed about the moon, im lost
<JennaJ> the moon does indeed rotate, but the zetas claim it does not
<samsara2003> Example 1: The moon's rotation...
<samsara2003> This is the most commonly misunderstood statement that is interpretted as a contradiction
<samsara2003> What the zetas were saying was that the moon does not rotate under it's own influence
<samsara2003> It's caught by the gravitational field of the earth and thus one side is always facing the earth
<samsara2003> The mechanics of planetary rotation are completely misunderstood by modern science because we have no way of getting down inside the earth to look!
<JennaJ> If the zetas were much more intelligent than Nancy, they would have not made the statement in the manner which they did
<samsara2003> I don't know enough about light rays being bent to comment intelligently enough on that statement...but I know the zetas have gotten a lot of heat for it
<JennaJ> instead, they need people to provide followup analysis
<JennaJ> they rely upon you and others
<JennaJ> Super-Hi IQ beings wouldn't need you or I to figure out what they were trying to say.  This boils down to "channeling" which Nancy claims is not occurring
<samsara2003> They are saying something that is contrary to our understanding...it doesn't mean it's wrong, or that they don't understand, - it means WE are wrong about OUR theories...and it certainly doesn't mean that they shouldn't have said it
<reti> good point!
<JennaJ> I don't believe there is any "chip" in Nancy's head.  This is channeling.
<samsara2003> I thought it WAS chenneling...and nancy states that this IS what is occuring...is this correct?
<JennaJ> Nancy states that this is not channeling.
<samsara2003> Where?
<samsara2003> Do you have the link - I can't find it...
<JennaJ> In IRC, in various interviews, etc.
<JennaJ> most definitely in IRC sessions, check the logs
<JennaJ> i've got to go.  But, excellent conversation.  I'll see you tommorrow.
<samsara2003> In anycase, they are communicating with her somehow - through means which I don't think any of us could do more than speculate about - it's senseless to prove something 'wrong' that we know little about
<samsara2003> Talk tya later
<JennaJ> later
<reti> see you, thanks for the conversation, it was intersting
<samsara2003> I'll try to catch the session tomorrow...I might have to work
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Fri Jun 14 16:06:26 2002