Session Start: Thu Jul 11 12:57:30 2002
*** Now talking in #Troubled_Times
<Pott> How close to Earth is "nemesis" ?
<Pott> Well rather how far is our Sun and nemesis apart?
<[3j]> its supposed to be very far out there, beyond the last belt of asteroids
<[3j]> but the theories I've read, say nemesis moves, and when every now and then it disrupts the other asteroid belt.... nancy claims its fixe din space like the sun
<Jeremy> And ZT says its doesn't emit any radiation detectable by our devices
<[3j]> theories supporting nemesis also say that
<[3j]> if it was lit like the sun I'm sure we would see it ;)
<Pott> So is Nemesis supposed to be the same size as our Sun?
<Jeremy> roughly..
<Pott> It should be a star then
<Jeremy> It doesn't have any planets but is orbited by a lot of trash, ZT says
<Pott> Our Sun has enough matter for 2 stars atleast.
<sapphire> doesn't add up...gravitational effects
<Jeremy> Correction: It is visited by PX though every 3,657 years
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<Pott> Our star is average sized so they can be a lot smaller anything near the size of our star would be a star it's self.
<sapphire> gravity from nemesis would affect the earth much more than magnetic field of px
<sapphire> unless it had smaller mass than sun
<Jeremy> Pott: Our star is described as a 'main sequence star' actually
<sapphire> which, of course, would support "non-ignition"
<sapphire> i simply don't believe it can be anywhere near the mass of our sun
<Pott> It would be a star then
<sapphire> yes, an un-ignited star by ZT definition
<Pott> sapphire: That just does not happen though we know that anything too small is a brown dwarf.
<Jeremy> binary star systems are quite common, and perhaps dark stars are quite numerous too
<sapphire> like i said "ZT definition"
<Pott> Otherwise if it's large enough to be a star it should become one
<[3j]> it can be large enough, its the mass that matters
<[3j]> when a celestial body reaches a certain mass, it ignites
<[3j]> thats why there are very tiny stars, like the one near sirius
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<[3j]> but the tiny star is super heavy
<[3j]> dense mass...
<[3j]> jupiter is a good example too
<Jeremy> Much of the stellar evolution knowledge we have today is just unproven theory anyway
<Pott> Jupiter is only 1/50 of the required mass.
<Angelic> jupiter isn't dense :)
<[3j]> exactly
<sapphire> so a "nemesis" would have to be around 1/2 to 1/3 the required mass
<[3j]> im just making the distinction between size/mass
<Jeremy> And composition matters too..
<[3j]> yup that too
<Pott> The unique thing about Jupiter is it is like a huge metal ball.
<sapphire> but, detected gravity pull would confirm any mass
<sapphire> and there is none...
<Jeremy> Jupiters magnetic field has altered significantly in recent times apparently
<sapphire> so likely doesn't exist
<[3j]> anyone remember Shoemaker-Levy 9?
<Jeremy> ya
<[3j]> you can see a picture of the asteroid explosion at the bottom of http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/jupiter-ez.html
<Pott> The Suns magnetic field constantly changes.
<Pott> It's field is so intense it is twisted.
<[3j]> magnetic and gravity forces, gets confusing :)
<sapphire> pott: exactly, blows the argument about px affecting the earth
<sapphire> it is more likely that sun activity is causing the stuff some are attributing to px
<Pott> We are largely unaware of the cycles our Sun goes through.
<sapphire> weather, etc.
<Pott> It is indeed the most influential force outside of our planet.
<sapphire> possible that sun might do some pretty catostrophic stuff to earth's environment on a periodic basis
<sapphire> not just ice-ages
<obany> i don't think the sun is cauing those weather changes, and i don't buy that either
<sapphire> possible geologic effects
<obany> yeay yeah call me a true believer or whatever
<sapphire> possible that earth's core responds to sun magnetics
<Pott> We cause a lot of damage ourselves.
<sapphire> of course
<sapphire> but, why not earth's core affected like in ZT scenario but by SUN not PX?
<sapphire> more likely than PX
<Jeremy> Must admit I do accept the ZT notion of an equilibrium in the solar system, it makes sense to me
<obany> i realy realy doubt tthat sapphire
<obany> but gee i you already know that
<obany> about me
<obany> i think
<sapphire> of course, your a total believer
<obany> <obany> yeay yeah call me a true believer or whatever
<Pott> Theoretically speaking Sun spots are a form of magnetic storm we don't know if they could be a super magnetic storm or what on a periodic basis.
<[3j]> sapphire, perhaps because the earth formed itself and after millions of years, the chaos eventually balanced itself all out, like imagine a bath tub full of plastic balls... throw one in everything gets shifted but eventually evens out
<sapphire> i can entertain the possibility that Nancy got some things right, others horribly mistaken
<[3j]> and PX supposedly is an invader in the solar system, it came in after everything was fine and dandy
<[3j]> so it's presence is what cause an imbalance, and the pole shift
<sapphire> i don't believe there is a PX
<[3j]> thats good.. me I have a doubt
<sapphire> i do believe that there are "Zetas"
<sapphire> not necessarily how Nancy describes
<Pott> I'm willing to accept that there are catastrophic events periodically by every 3657 years too short.
<sapphire> i agree with that, MUCH too short
<Pott> It's more on a 10's of millions of years basis.
<[3j]> i dont know..
<Pott> There are trees that are 4700 years old
<[3j]> take for example egypt, it was supposed to be tropical there..
<sapphire> even older
<obany> i realy don't think so pott about the 10's of millions basis
<Pott> obany: That is extremely severe events
<sapphire> geologic record supports it
<Jeremy> Past researchers of PX thought it might have a multi-million year orbit, inclined sharply too the eclitpic that also 'precesses' gradually over a long period
<Pott> That does not mean severe events don't happen
<Pott> Heck we get yearly hurricanes.
<Pott> Earth Quakes
<sapphire> I'm thinking solar activity would cause the most massive climate changes
<Pott> Plenty of changes all the time but not severe enough to cause a complete change of course of history.
<Pott> Thats reserved for comets and asteroids.
<Jeremy> Of all the PX researchers, Van Flandern and Robert Harrington of the US Navan Observatory appear to have come closest to the ZT explanation of PX
<sapphire> solar output might not be as constant as we assume in our short time of observation
<Pott> It could be possible the sun beats like a heart
<sapphire> we still don't understand the exact process of the "nuclear" reactions which drive it
<sapphire> we have mostly speculation
<Jeremy> saphhire: yes, and ZT says our Sun doesn't have nuclear reactions, suprisingly
<Pott> Well in the lab conditions inside of Suns can be created.
<sapphire> SOHO was the first hard attempt to measure solar output
<sapphire> too recent to draw many conclusions
<Pott> Although much smaller the exact same processes can be performed.
<sapphire> we don't know they are the same processes, we are speculating
<Pott> That does not mean we understand it all I suspect the complexity of nature to be forever illusive.
<sapphire> pott: i hope so
<sapphire> it seems to propell our advancements
<Pott> brb
<sapphire> we seem to want to reach for the stars, because we haven't been able to reach them
<sapphire> humans seem to need challenge
<sapphire> or they stagnate
<Jeremy> yeah I can't reach Britney Spears :)
<sapphire> he he
<Jeremy> Russians are planning a manned mission to Mars
<[3j]> joint mission, russia pay 1/3 of 20 billion cost
<[3j]> US 20 billion i think the total cost is, and it involves two manned ships going there and back
<Jeremy> I thought they wanted their own cosmonauts to be the first humans to set foot on Mars
<[3j]> oh maybe.. i thought it was a joint
<sapphire> the science that could be learned from manned mission would be enormous...and the price tag
<[3j]> 20 bil would be better spent on research for alternative fuel, or even alternative method for launching to space
<sapphire> 3j: yes, I agree
<sapphire> we have problems to fix here first
<[3j]> yeah
<Jeremy> The Russians are experts in space pyschology, you know the long term effects, etc
<[3j]> they are
<sapphire> Mir taught them
<[3j]> russians have the most experience in that
<Jeremy> yeah
<sapphire> i wouldn't undertake long term space voyage simply because of the physical deteriation on the body
<sapphire> much less psychological
<sapphire> astronauts have to be of a higher calibur
<sapphire> more guts than I have
* obany brb
<[3j]> its just issue of comfort that needs to be addressed and solves
<[3j]> solved even
<[3j]> like a method to simulate gravity
<[3j]> thats about it i think :)
<sapphire> yes, gravity the biggest hurdle to maintain health
<[3j]> maybe some fast space DSL so visitors can keep in touch with friends/family
<[3j]> that would be it..
<Jeremy> I know astronauts have watched DVD movies on laptop computers onboard the ISS
<[3j]> hehe thats cool
<[3j]> i wonder if ISS has enough extra power output to recharge the laptops
<[3j]> ISS goes down cuz of some laptop eating all the juice
<Jeremy> well its got very large solar panel array
<[3j]> no kidding the entire station is going to be so huge..
<[3j]> hopefully its stong enough to survive meteor showers
<[3j]> small rocks i mean
<Jeremy> they might build a hotel to accomodate rich visitors :)
<[3j]> 20 million for round trip tickets
<[3j]> expensive even for rich folks
<[3j]> that pop star was supposed to do it
<[3j]> from nsync I think
<Jeremy> oh
<Jeremy> Joey Patone?
<[3j]> i dont know his name
<[3j]> i remember reading that his deadline was getting close though
<Jeremy> Nysnc and Nelly gotta single out here
<[3j]> he wouldnt be able to finsih teh required training in time
<Jeremy> funny, the agents aren't here today
<Jeremy> No AgentY, on AgentPX
<Jeremy> on=No
<[3j]> i thought they were the same person
<sapphire> yes it appeared that was the case
<Jeremy> No, two separate individuals; AgentPX lives in Montreal
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<Jeremy> AgentY lives in NYC
<Jeremy> wb obany
<sapphire> yes, I saw the location differences, but there were eerie coincidences
<Jeremy> I talked to AgentPX while AgentY was having another conversation
<sapphire> perhaps they have been keeping close conversation between
<Jeremy> Maybe they are indeed CIA agents :)
<sapphire> that would be nice, something to ponder
<sapphire> "war on terror" probably has a provision for monitoring "dissadent" groups
<Jeremy> I wonder what the bookies odds are that an unknown planet will become visible as a reddish cross in late March 2003?
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<sapphire> I didn't see it in any of the sport books here
<sapphire> odds would be very bad I think
<Jeremy> 'good' if you want to place a small bet
<sapphire> yes, that's true
<sapphire> but you couldn't collect
<Jeremy> not easily
<Jeremy> certainly not in May 2003!
<[3j]> unless you win by betting against
<sapphire> but with 1:20000 odds, no good against
<sapphire> maybe I should start a pool here in Vegas
<Jeremy> I remember hearing a story some years ago about a chap placing a large bet that ET life would be discovered by the 21st century
<sapphire> i was going to be content with online polls...but
<Jeremy> hmm... it going to be a starry night here again. I'll probably buy a new Plossl eyepiece for my telescope soon; getting back into amateur astronomy
<obany> Jeremy :)
<Jeremy> My scope won't be powerful enough to sight PX in the autumn, but perhaps I may capture a glimpse of it after it's well within the outer solar system
<Jeremy> That appears to be sometime in late February 2003
<sapphire> the date seems to keep getting later
<obany> sapphire, no ... not later
<sapphire> i knew obany would jump in
<Jeremy> sapphire: I only have a 4.5 inch scope, so I have only personally estimated it to be visible to MY equipment then
<sapphire> jeremy: you assume it exists before you site it?
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<Jeremy> sapphire: I am confident it exists but I can't say with scientfic certainty it does
<sapphire> so, what is the latest date that you will still be confident, if you cannot image it in your scope?
<obany> sapphire: you realy think you know me do you
<sapphire> obany: i have never met you, so the answer would be "no".
<obany> well okay then
<Jeremy> After late Feb 2003 I will only have to wait until late March when it appears as reddish cross. If there is no reddish cross then I will have very strong doubts about all of this
<[3j]> so near...
<sapphire> only doubts?  
<[3j]> well these apocalyptic predictions have come in the dozens in the past few decades, and were all fine arent we
<[3j]> so px could very well be that :)
<Jeremy> 3j: many say that
<sapphire> jeremy: no offense intended but you have to be classified as a "believer".  Why bother with the scope?
<sapphire> ZT always right!
<Jeremy> But by the autmum there should be a barrage of amatuers looking for it. There are a fair few following ZT/tt-watch etc with good equipment
<sapphire> Nancy told me in email that I shouldn't bother spending money on a telescope!  I should instead take a look at the changes occuring around me, and by late 2000 I would be sure.
<Jeremy> sapphire: I may be classified as a believer, but I do have room for doubt. A personal sighting would resolve all uncertainty
<sapphire> she told me this back in '98
<[3j]> 2003 is the year
<Jeremy> saphhire: yes, don't buy a telescope, becuase to get decent one you will have to shell out some hard cash
<Jeremy> better to wait until next year before deciding
<sapphire> I told her I had $15000 to spend upon it...she said don't bother
<Jeremy> 15 grand!
<sapphire> that's right
<obany> so you are into this for some time now mr vegas ?
<sapphire> Any idea what kind of scope that can buy?
<Jeremy> no wonder you call yourself sapphire  :)
<sapphire> obany: since 1995
<obany> since 1995, so since the start???
<obany> or later on
<sapphire> I don't know what you call the exact "start" but I read entire ZT site in Nov 95
<Jeremy> sapphire: You could proably get a 16" telescope for that money
<sapphire> I know, I researched it
<obany> well the exact start will be like early 1995
<sapphire> I wasn't around for Lindemann chat group
<obany> ok
<sapphire> there are 5 ZT pages which are result of email from me to Nancy
<Jeremy> Nice talking tonight. Bye people..
<obany> bye Jeremy, talk to you later
<sapphire> later
<Jeremy> cio ;)
<Jeremy> ciao I meant
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<sapphire> there are several emails I sent Nancy in early 1996 informing her of points of argument whe could use in supporting a few of her ZT statements.
<sapphire> i watched her use these as "counterpoints" on sci.astro debate
<sapphire> she has no problem using other's arguments in her favor...without credit
<sapphire> that is why I know she is using sci.astro as a "sounding board" to support further ZT material
<sapphire> she expects sci.astro astronomers to inadvertantly help her perpetuate ZT
<sapphire> for a couple of years it worked
<sapphire> now most of these astronomers have become wise to it
<[3j]> you make it sound as if its a conspiracy
<sapphire> not necessarily, I'm only speaking of Nancy
<Pott> Nancy
<Pott> Nancy Kook Lieder.
<sapphire> Perhaps you won't agree, Pott, but what she is calling "Zetas" are real things
<[3j]> how do you know?
<sapphire> past experience, and patterns which I have encountered before, and some ZT statements
<sapphire> many personal experiences
<Pott> Perhaps the image of what they look like is real.
<sapphire> STO vs STS is a modification of "good cop, bad cop"
<sapphire> no, the image is what they have taken from us
<sapphire> it has the intended psychological effect
<[3j]> wtf is up with her talking we all gonig to transform into zetas
<[3j]> sounds like a takeover to me
<[3j]> soemone in this channel was saying that the other dya
<[3j]> day *
<sapphire> we are very much like the native americans when only a couple of small boats (vikings) had encountered North America
<sapphire> we still have time
<obany> okay 3j... it has nothing to do with us all transforming into Zetas
<Pott> Sapphire: I would not chose STO nor STS as my orientation anyways.
<[3j]> well i dont like the "hybrid" concept at all. Im proud to be a human
<sapphire> they are, of course, over-simplifications
<[3j]> and i wouldnt want to trade that for anything
<obany> i don't have any problems with the hybrid program et all
<sapphire> hybrid program isn't necessarily real
<[3j]> maybe you want to become an alien, thats up to you
<sapphire> Zetas are not "aliens"
<[3j]> there not humans..
<obany> well sapphire, i think (believe) it's real
<sapphire> closer to another dimension, density etc. -- they mix truth with lies
<Pott> Theres no challange in being handed evolution.
<sapphire> it large parts of ZT they tell the truth, but the rest is mis-representation and deliberately so
<obany> so pott you rather would have been a monkey????
<sapphire> they are lying about "handing us evolution"
<sapphire> we are most likely an obsticle to them
<Pott> I doubt we were evolved like that otherwise the first race would not have evolved.
<Pott> How could they without someone else doing it for them?
<Pott> Ahhhh I see evolution is what it means to be.
<Pott> obany: You should be more worrysome about ourselves than these so called "Zetas"
<sapphire> ZT seeks to destory national pride on many levels and in many countries
<sapphire> divide before conquer
<[3j]> yeah
<[3j]> you were the one talking about that
<[3j]> makes lots of sense
<Pott> What will you do obany when nothing happens?
<sapphire> ZT tells the truth about "niburians" not wanting to come take earth back by force
<sapphire> but they are shifting this from themselves
<sapphire> they are the ones who are afraid of earth's "beasts", the earth as a "swamp" and deem it to costly to invade
<sapphire> at this time
<sapphire> they shift the story and decieve
<sapphire> mix truth with lie
<[3j]> so what is the zetas agenda?
<[3j]> and is zeta the same as grays? basically evil race?
<sapphire> we are in their way, to a goal
<sapphire> native americans were in the "way" of the anglo settlers
<sapphire> not "evil", just in the way
<Pott> I'm sure the Universe has a lot more to offer than the "Zeta's"
<[3j]> so they need breeding room?
<[3j]> or is the phrase breathing hehe
<Pott> Why the fuck should they be the focus of anyones life?
<sapphire> i don't know, perhaps physical resources
<Pott> In all actuality quite insignificant.
<obany> geeeee......... why do you folks keep asking me that question
<obany> anyway brb
<[3j]> what does the earth have to offer that they cant find in ateroids or other planets/moons in the solar system, hmm
<Pott> obany: Atleast I don't have my head in a fat ass.
<[3j]> hey pott relax
<Pott> I am relaxed
<[3j]> everyone is friendly
<[3j]> dont have to bash/insult anyone
<sapphire> 3j: that is a huge open-ended question.  The earth (and this reality) have a magnitude to offer
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<[3j]> maybe..
<[3j]> what could be so precious though, human resources?
<sapphire> they are perhaps explorers like ourselves
<Pott> sapphire: Actuality is much more appropriate.
<sapphire> but also conquerers
<[3j]> after all humans are always being abducted and mutilated
<[3j]> not always but you know, stories
<Pott> sapphire: Reality is how we see things.
<sapphire> by "reality" i mean't dimension or density, etc.
<Pott> sapphire: Even twisted and demented such as Nancy could probably seem quite a reality but is it actuality?
<sapphire> I know that what she is calling "zetas" are real things.  I suspect that the "chip" in her head is not real, but is a mental device enabling her the contact
<Pott> sapphore: What you talk about is indeed there it is just a matter of tuning yourself to see it.
<sapphire> pott: most people need a "device" of some kind to enable the mental state to achieve this contact
<reticuli> anyone here have such a device implanted?
<Motivez> ooh, me !
<Motivez> Well, I was in a cast for 1.5 years, and how my wrist hurts whenever it's going to rain. Does that count?
<sapphire> I don't think "implants" are real, but they are a human fear which has been used upon us
<Pott> sapphire: Do you think that "device" could be that of ones own manifestation?
<reticuli> probably not motivez :)
<sapphire> yes, as long as she believes there is a "chip" it will function
<Pott> sapphire: That is exactly what I was about to say.
<Motivez> That's not fair
<reticuli> why not?
<Motivez> Clearly me being able to tell when it's going to rain is proof of telepathic messages
<Motivez> :/
<sapphire> ouija functions in the same fashion (yes, it is real)
<Motivez> How else could I know !
<reticuli> no, thats  precognition, no communication is necessary
<Motivez> lies
<sapphire> Zetas can't read human thoughts
<sapphire> they emply some sort of technology to calculate near-term outcomes
<Pott> I think it might be the other way around.
<sapphire> it is very convincing
<Pott> or perhaps both ways
<Pott> Through my experiences I could never understand them
<reticuli> so you say that zetas are not telepathic sapphy?
<sapphire> but they can be decieved, revealing that they cannot in fact read thoughts
<sapphire> reticuli: at least not with humans
<reticuli> why is it then that people who encounter them communicate telepathically?
<sapphire> they are only encountered in dreams/dream-states, and never physically
<sapphire> again, ZT mix truth with lie
<sapphire> UFO sightings are only visual, not physical in nature
<reticuli> visual is not physical?
<sapphire> that is why jets can't "lock onto them" etc.
<reticuli> thats strange
<sapphire> the pilot of a fighter jet "sees" the UFO, radar cannot because there is nothing to bounce off of
<sapphire> not because they have some sort of "stealth"
<sapphire> again, they mix truth with lies
<reticuli> what do you think about the eyewitnesses who have shot them down
<sapphire> no one has ever shot one down
<reticuli> how can you be so sure?
<sapphire> people claim the earth is flat--doesn't make it so
<reticuli> thats not a valid analogy, I mean you say that they have never been shot down... why do you say that?
<sapphire> ZT tells the truth about "you have the right to say no"
<sapphire> but it is not because of Council Of Worlds, it is because of a technology short-coming
<reticuli> once again, where is the proof?
<sapphire> most of their inabilities are talked about in ZT as though they are "choices" of the Zetas or Council Of Worlds.
<sapphire> they haven't mass landed because they CAN't -- not because they chose not to
<reticuli> forget zt talk for a moment, I think you have toexplain why you are so sure that they have never been shot down
<sapphire> they seek the explaination which preserves the greatest presumption of their superiority
<sapphire> at all times
<reticuli> yeah, got thaty
<reticuli> but why  are you so sure of this theory
<sapphire> because what Nancy is calling the "Zetas" I have encountered before
<sapphire> before there was a ZetaTalk.com
<reticuli> so you make the assumption that becasue they contact you in a particular way that they cannot contact others in different ways
<reticuli> ?
<sapphire> no, but when you hear the same basic set of lies once, you know it when you hear it re-organized on a website
<reticuli> what lies?
<sapphire> and from personal experience, there "rules" of non-interference are lies
<sapphire> Where would you like me to begin?  I've already told you several.
<[3j]> hmm
<reticuli> I would like you to be more detailed in your expereinces and then explain how you come to the conclusions you come to
<[3j]> so when people witness ufos its not really there??
<reticuli> its possible
<[3j]> what about the times when unusual radiation is left
<Pott> The question is what exactly are they seeing.
<Pott> Nancy Lieder is mentally ill: 45.95%
<Pott> Nancy Lieder is a con-artist: 33.78%
<Pott> Nancy Lieder speaks the truth: 20.27%
<Pott> Total Votes: 74
<[3j]> or when there are other physical manifestations
<sapphire> 3j: not physical.  You see it like you see a hologram.  But, in your mind.
<Pott> There are effects that can be mistaken for UFO's
<Motivez> You should have named that the planet x zetatalk poll
<Pott> Hell even a picture of a plane could prove illusive.
<Motivez> I bet planet x gets more hits than zetatalk ( the word )
<reticuli> so sapphire, you claim they lie? when have you caught them in a lie
<[3j]> pott, where is that poll at?
<Pott> 3j: www.skepticalmind.com
<Pott> On the Zetatalk are
<Pott> On the Zetatalk area
<sapphire> ZT says photos of UFOs are "fuzzy" because of rules from Council Of Worlds.  But, photos of UFOs are fuzzy because the technology which makes you "think" you saw the UFO doesn't have that affect on the camera
<sapphire> they make identifiable objects appear as UFOs
<sapphire> and, of course, there are the mass number of "wannabe" fake photos
<[3j]> what the.. the face of mars is not real? :)
<sapphire> 3J: :)
<Pott> Also people may see some sort of event and think it was a UFO and still hold to that even when evidence shows it was not.
<reticuli> I've seen plenty of clear photos, but thats not what I am asking you sapphy. You are making some pretty wild claims, it would be helpful if you would give a detailed accounts of your experiences and the lies you have caught them in
<sapphire> pott: yes, and this plays into their hand
<sapphire> alot of what these things are doing, is taken from our own culture over the last few decades
<sapphire> a war of disinfo
<Pott> People are very easily manipulated by factors of the unknown.
<Pott> It's a susceptability of mans.
<sapphire> they exploit this
<[3j]> by the time the zetas come here, everyone is probably going to praise them as gods and welcome them open armed?
<reticuli> sapphire, why are you avoiding the question?
<sapphire> reticuli:  I can detail the claims, but you probably aren't going to believe them anymore than what I say now.
<Pott> I think if we think that they will come down from the heavens and make everything better we have something else comming to us.
<[3j]> didnt nostradamus predict some luney will have the help of aliens in the near future? :)
<reticuli> dont assume what I will believe or not
<reticuli> I wouldnt ask if I wasnt interested in understanding how you have come to your conclusions
<Pott> I suppose the only true thing to believe in is that what truely is true will show it's self in the end.
<sapphire> reticuli: there are only 5 people who were with me at the time some of these things happened.  They are the only ones who won't doubt
<reticuli> once again, you are making assumptions
<sapphire> there is another problem
<sapphire> one of the reasons I know I am dealing with the same "things" in ZT
<Pott> I think the truth of things goes beyond what you could ever find on the Internet or any Library.
<reticuli> I am interested, and it really doesnt matter what i believe or not. You are making claims about this, I am asking you to describe the expereinces you had so that I may understand how you have come to this conclusion
<sapphire> there were originally 7 people who were there with me when some of this stuff occurred
<[3j]> where did this happen, in nevada?
<sapphire> 2 of them are diceased.
<reticuli> yes, please be detailed
* Pott want dinner. Zeta head is good lots of brains.
<reticuli> you know, who what when where etc
<sapphire> Telling you details about this (I will probably post some stuff about this on the website in the near future) is not something I would be doing you a favor
<Pott> Where is often difficult to answer.
<reticuli> stop being so cryptic... it doesnt help your arguemets
<sapphire> not cryptic:  if I don't explain this thing in the right fashion, you will become involved
<sapphire> and I don't mean as a spectator
<reticuli> who says im not
<sapphire> I made a mistake about 9 years ago.  I believed that wanting to know the answer to a certain thing was worth whatever "risk".  Now, I can tell you that this isn't something that you can just take back.
<sapphire> You can't "un-know" some things.  they leave a permanent scar.
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<reticuli> once again. you are being so general that it does not help your arguement
<[3j]> lol sapphire
<reticuli> if what you say id true then we NEED to know
<[3j]> you sound like a mulder
<[3j]> go ahead and spill everything! we want to know
<sapphire> doesn't matter about the current argument.  I will post details when I feel right.  Don't worry, it will be before May 2003.
<sapphire> in the context of PX, it isn't that pressing.  PX doesn't exist.
<sapphire> Zetas do exist.  That I have to be more carefull about blabbing.
<sapphire> i am only 31, I want to live at least 70 or so years.
*** FunBot sets mode: +l 22
<sapphire> I'm sure you do too.
<reticuli> by keeping your expereinces secret you increase the risk to yourself
<Pott> reticuli: I have reason to believe he has been through an experience that would probably make you mad.
<sapphire> hardly, 5 others know all
<sapphire> and it wouldn't change the world, just your perspective
<reticuli> hey, thats worth it to me
<Pott> I would suspect by judging by his words that he probably knows more than you would ever know.
<sapphire> pott: it didn't make me mad.  I had a brush with suicide once.  
<sapphire> But, I was a different person then.
<reticuli> I'm not saying he doesnt pott, but unless he's willing to sahre this is all hot air
<Pott> I know the what the call to the spirital side of things is like.
<Pott> Once you realize it is there it becomes like a blinding beacon.
<Pott> Could you ever picture yourself being able to realize when you fall asleep?
<reticuli> uhm yes
<Pott> Perhaps you realize you are asleep when you are asleep but to experience the transition between conscience and sub-conscience is something seldom understood.
<reticuli> enlighten me
<Pott> Do you remember in school when your learning a new concept in math and you don't quite get it then suddenly everything clicks and you get that feeling of realization?
<reticuli> yes
<reticuli> but that is not seldom understood it is common
<Pott> That is the nature of spirital realization but realizations =)
<Pott> For instance thinking about the nature of God before you go to sleep and inducing a realization can have a powerful effect.
<Pott> Mind you this skill takes time to refine. It is about realizations as equally imporant focus.
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<reticuli> so you visualize the zetas b4 sleep?
<Pott> It does not always work like that. What you want is not always what you get. I find generally only your absolute deepest desires are often foretold through visions.
<Pott> I would suspect with time that it could quite be graspable.
<Pott> However most visions are that of what is on the sub-conscience mind.
<Pott> That is why it is imporant to learn how to experience the tranisition between conscience and sub-conscience so that they become one.
<reticuli> and then you are attacked by zetas?
<Pott> Depending on how well you develop it would be possible to attack them.
<Pott> Just concentrate on your place in the cosmos.
<Pott> Allow the enigma of the cosmos to flow through you and realize what it has to offer.
<Pott> Only you can choose to understand the non-understandable.
<Pott> That all =)
<sapphire> yes, you can attack them.
<sapphire> But, don't treat it like a game.
<reticuli> Well, that seems harmeless, and if true it would be a valuable skill to learn to defend earth
<sapphire> Because, they will treat it like a game, but when you lose you will REALLY lose
<sapphire> and they will find something humourous in it
<reticuli> undoubetdly
* obany goes now bye
[obany:#Troubled_Times PING]
-obany:#Troubled_Times- bye goodnight take care sleep well
<Ogmios> good night obany!
<Ogmios> sleep well
<obany> thank you bye you too and the same for the others over here
*** obany has quit IRC (bye goodnight take care sleep well welterusten)
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<StaZ> hi
<reticuli> hi
<StaZ> Not very talkative in here, hm+
<StaZ> +
<StaZ> Argh, my shift button is in disorder :\
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<Angelic> 3j?
<Angelic> sapphire you there?
<HBO> Hello Angelic...everyone away, or just talked out?
<Angelic> hi HBO, I don't know just finished my attempt at editing the nancy-art bell interview into a short humurous one :/
* StaZ just entered
<StaZ> Is it so that the "encounter" with Nibiru is to happen May 2003?
<Angelic> zt says that staZ
<HBO> anything new on your site lately...haven't been therefor a while?
<StaZ> See.
<Angelic> which site?
<StaZ> There's a band I admire called Tool
<StaZ> and the newsletter on their site mentions the encounter.
<Angelic> cool vid they got, Tool
<StaZ> You mean Parabol(a)?
<HBO> I thought you had a site with your nick as heading
<Angelic> it does?
<Angelic> that one yes
<StaZ> Yes.
<Angelic> hbo its still under construction
<StaZ> very much so
<Angelic> oh
<StaZ> I've been reading a lot about this Planet X, or Nibiru
<Angelic> tool supports this?
<StaZ> the ancient sumerian myth etc.
<StaZ> Yes
<StaZ> They've built shelters.
<Angelic> really?
<StaZ> Yes.
<Angelic> they should come to sweden
<StaZ> I'm in Norway.
<Angelic> cool :) i am in the netherlands
<StaZ> I have no idea on how to survive if disaster strikes
<StaZ> :\
<HBO> Angelic:  speaking of art bell, listen to archive from July 5 (I think) with John Chambers
<Angelic> I do not know if this is really going to happen, but i want to safe not sorry
<HBO> really bizarre
<Angelic> hbo what kind of connection do you have?
<StaZ> I don't know either
<HBO> broadband
<StaZ> But I don't have any means of protection myself, so.
<StaZ> There's nothing to do except sit and wait.
<Angelic> is there
<StaZ> Hm?
<StaZ> Seems like it.
<Angelic> i think people should team up with others, cooperate, a joined effort to do whatever, build domes or whatever dunno
<StaZ> Where would you recommend to build one?
<Angelic> such a band like, they are int he usa?
<StaZ> Tool are in the US, yes.
<Angelic> well, I go to sweden, a friend of mine already lives there
<Angelic> but that is next year
<Angelic> hbo
<StaZ> Lucky.
<Angelic> go to http://62.108.14.70 :) download my version of nancy on art bell hehe ;)
<Angelic> edited it
<HBO> yes, broadband via cable
<HBO> very fast
<Angelic> nancytalk.mp3 hbo
<StaZ> Frater.
<HBO> which is goo, cause my computer is old anbd slow
<Angelic> frater?
<StaZ> Hm
<StaZ> Tool's site is down.
<StaZ> Damnit.
<Angelic> shit happens
<StaZ> I thought I'd show you something :\
<Angelic> well i already took note
<Angelic> and am logging this just tell me
<StaZ> Frater Xaphan
<StaZ> Heard of him?
<Angelic> is he a singer?
<StaZ> Nono
<StaZ> Part of a brotherhood of some sort, I'm not usre.
<StaZ> sure
<StaZ> But he's been having reoccuring dreams of tidal waves and meteor showers.
<Angelic> I have those, too, including giant storms
<StaZ> Related to Tool in some way, he's mentioned on their latest "news" thing.
<Angelic> somehow something is telling me there is truth in this whole thing, but the planet hasn't been sighted and next to that zetatalk isn't 100% accurate
<StaZ> That's true.
<StaZ> But the pole shift is mentioned in ancient Sumerian writings.
<Angelic> tool.com?
<StaZ> no
<StaZ> www.toolband.com
<Angelic> ok
<Angelic> HBO you downloading?
<StaZ> I think they're updating with something.
<StaZ> There's been a lot of news and updates there lately... not like them.
<HBO> yes, it's kinda slow for only 3M
<Angelic> yes typical for my connection
<Angelic> 3j got 12k/s though today from me
<Angelic> site is down yes :(
<HBO> seems to hung up at about 1.4 meg
<StaZ> Do you believe Nibiru is inahbited?
<StaZ> *inhabited
<Angelic> I think it's possible, though 'our' science has not come so far as to know it is so I am not sure
<HBO> well, all legend has basis of some sort, so maybe
<Angelic> StaZ
<Angelic> the newsletter can also be read here: http://www.freelists.org/archives/toolnews/01-2002/msg00000.html
<StaZ> oh
<StaZ> cool
<StaZ> dude
<StaZ> that's not ne
<StaZ> w
<StaZ> that's OLD
<Angelic> ah, it does however talk about nibiru already
<StaZ> it does+
<HBO> Angelic how many lines can one post here at one entry?
<Angelic> don't know, try it
<HBO> ok..have an email from nancy concerning px not being seen this summer, not until late fall..I'll see how much of it will go up at once
<Angelic> don't get booted for flooding
<HBO> If one says a girl is capable of conceiving at the age of 12, and then she
<HBO> does not show up pregnant, this does NOT mean she is not capable of
<HBO> conceiving.
<HBO> 1. she has not had sex
<HBO> 2. she had sex but not at the right time of month
<HBO> 3. she had sex but contraception was used.
<HBO> None of that makes the statements invalid.  The size, magnitude, etc. is
<HBO> what they were referring to.  Not the position of the Earth, light pollution
<HBO> wise.  The statement could have been qualified to say "when the Earth
<HBO> finally moves in its orbit to come into place where dark sky and not light
<HBO> pollution is a factor"
<StaZ> lol
<StaZ> In his working=20=
<StaZ> hypothesis based on historical evidence deemed credible, though over=20
<StaZ> 2000 years ago, he suggests that this star was a brown dwarf type which=20=
<StaZ> he identifies as Nibiru - the winged planet of ancient Mesopotamia and=20=
<StaZ> Egypt familiar to those who have read Zecharia Sitchin=92s "12th Planet=20=
<StaZ> Chronicles."
<HBO> but the LACK of this qualifier does not make the
<HBO> statement invalid.  In fact, it allowed Open Minded to SHOW his true
<HBO> intentions!  And this is frequently a Zeta Technique.  They baited him and
<HBO> he stepped rightin into the trap!
<HBO> Angelic...exactly what is flooding?
<HBO> are you there?
<Angelic> they baited imo, not a chance
<Angelic> flooding is posting lots of lines after one another without interuption, then you get booted from the channel but this channel isn't flood-protected it seems
<Angelic> hbo you got the interview nancytalk.mp3? :)
<HBO> no, it stopped downloading around 1.4 megs...I'll try later when my ram is less active
<HBO> what are the Nancy a and b?
<StaZ> RAM?
<StaZ> Ram has nothing to do with download speed.
<Angelic> those are the originals
<HBO> I know, but my 'puter is so old it might have had trouble downloading the file and being on mIRC?
<Angelic> hbo i can dvv it
<HBO> I'm pretty computer illiterate
<HBO> what is dvv?
<Angelic> that :)
<Angelic> you go to your menubar 'windows' topic and select dcc window and accept dcc
<HBO> coming in at about 17 kb/sec
<Angelic> gonna make me a sanwhich brb
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<HBO> angelic..you back yet?
<HBO> StaZ?
<Angelic> back :)
<HBO> hope you made one for me too
<Angelic> i got two
<Angelic> :)
<StaZ> ?
<HBO> I made an extra scotch/water just for you :)
<StaZ> Yes?
<Angelic> need one :) thnx
<Angelic> you like salmon? it got salmon
<StaZ> Salmon is tasty.
<Angelic> quite right :)
<Angelic> hbo listened to the mp3?  hehehe
<HBO> you know, I'm amazed at the excellant command of English that so many Europeans have on this channel
<Angelic> well, thank you very much :)
<HBO> yes, I listened to it...you're creative, to say the least
<Angelic> it's funny
<Angelic> well, i tried to make it funny ;)
<HBO> talking to mastadons...I love it!
<Angelic> it makes no sense, just like zt to me personally makes no sense right now.. but that might just be me being picky on wanting 100% accuracy
<HBO> angelic..by the way, I've never apologized to you for calling you an ass the night you kicked me, so I' sorry
<Angelic> huh?
<HBO> 2 or 3 months ago on TT
<Angelic> oh well
<Angelic> what was up then?
<HBO> I thought you were being a trouble maker, so I called you an ass, and you made some comment about newbies, and then I was gone
<HBO> my misunderstanding
<Angelic> is this true?
<HBO> would I lie?
<Angelic> do you mean it?
<HBO> yes, IQx and I both got kicked at the same time
<Angelic> I on't kick quickly unless provoced by being misunderstood followed by being ignored while at the same time being made fun off
<Angelic> +d = don't
<HBO> no big deal..it was all pretty calm compared to some of the stuff that's been going on here lately
<Angelic> hmm, alright
<HBO> I respect good arguments, i just don't like to see needless Nancy (or anyone ) bashing, you know?
<HBO> brb
<Angelic> hehe
<Angelic> prolly wasn't at all needless, but that must have been your misunderstanding
<HBO> I think I probably came in the middle of some prior conversation, and jumped to wrong conclusions
<Angelic> yes that must have been it ;)
<HBO> so, how are things in Sweden...anything weird like in USA?
<Angelic> ohno, I'm quite the oldy-goldy Nancy-devotee.. just some things happened thanks to which I personally changed some of my thinking inr egard to the 100% accuracy, Nancy's honesty and way of getting along with others etc.
<Angelic> I'm in the Netherlands, Jurian is in Sweden :) quite busy cutting wood, doing the vegetable garden etc.
<HBO> I is this just now planting season?
<StaZ> So this Jurian person is preparing for the worst, huh?
<Angelic> according to Jurian they started planting/sowing some 2 months ago or 1,5 month ago..
<StaZ> Damnit.
<StaZ> Worst thing is.
<StaZ> I found this out now, so it's too late to prepare.
<StaZ> :\
<Angelic> Jurian wanted to leave the Netherlands, it all did not gave him a comfortable feeling to stay here, and he is the type of person who likes to do the best thing so he moved
<StaZ> Ok.
<StaZ> Netherlands is a VERY risky place to stay
<StaZ> If it hits.
<StaZ> :\
<Angelic> he lives with a dutch couple there
<StaZ> I live in a coastal city
<StaZ> Trondheim.
<StaZ> But there are mountains 2 hours away.
<Angelic> yes, I live in a near-coast city :) amsterdam hehe
<Angelic> no mountain here
<StaZ> I think it would be wise to stock up and prepare.
<StaZ> there's a place called Røros.
<StaZ> There are giant mines there
<Angelic> I can stock up in december, no rush needed over here
<StaZ> Maybe that would be a good place to hide.
<HBO> I live next to New Madrid fault, fna my wife works right on top of it...we're screwed!
<Angelic> mnes may cave in on you :(
<StaZ> Yeah, I know
<StaZ> So those Domes are best+
<StaZ> ?
<Angelic> I'll buy me a surfboard and ride the first big cahuna ;)
<StaZ> What if they are destroyed?
<StaZ> the dome-houses?
<HBO> don't erect them until after passage
<StaZ> Lol
<StaZ> I'll be dead by then
<Angelic> domes are very strong but i think they can be destroyed yes, what then? then you are homeless, with constant rain on your head soaking your clothes, you will be cold, prolly very hungry and thristy.. hmmm.. rebuild the dome if at all possible
<StaZ> What about the embers and smoke?
<Angelic> embers?
<StaZ> lol
<StaZ> forget it.
<StaZ> Fortunately, there's no volcanoes here.
<StaZ> That's the best.
<Angelic> hehe right
<StaZ> :D
<Angelic> well, you could move to sweden?
<StaZ> But if there's gonna be earthquakes.
<StaZ> What should I do there?
<StaZ> I have no place to stay.
<StaZ> No money to pay for a place to stay
<Angelic> make friends there before you go, I do using the internet
<StaZ> hm.
<StaZ> I'd have to find someone that belives it'll happen and that are preparing.
<Angelic> yes true
<HBO> that's the hard part...look how spread out we all are
<StaZ> I know.
<StaZ> *believes*
<Angelic> well, Jurian is in Sweden, but he's just living in a little cottage type of house.. so does the couple next to it, and these will be destroyed by constant rains, storms and earthquakes
<StaZ> What about tidal waves?
<Angelic> you can talk about rebuilding but how do you want to build a dome in hurrican force winds and constant rain?
<Angelic> well, it's high land
<StaZ> Yeah, I guess.
<StaZ> Let us say you survive.
<HBO> hurricanes and earthquakes should subside quicly after pole shift, then you can build
<StaZ> What then?
<Angelic> well, at this time I do not have any money to go anywhere, let alone preparing by stocking up foodstuff and alike.. forget a dome or even a cheap type of shelter :/
<HBO> most will die from flooding, starvation, marauders, exposure, etc
<StaZ> That's the problem
<StaZ> Marauders?
<Angelic> I truly think, if this situation of mine will continue this way, I will just stay here and go to the beach :)
<HBO> people who try to survive by taking, killing, etc
<Angelic> anyone afraid to die?
<HBO> ready and waiting, myself
<Angelic> or afraid of the unknown bound to death?
<StaZ> I'm not afraid anymore.
<StaZ> I was, but.
<StaZ> I realize there's no fear -in- death.
<HBO> I completely believe in reincarnation, and I'm ready for a new experience
<StaZ> I don't believe in reincarnation.
<HBO> I think it's a shame that we lose rememberance of past experiences though
<HBO> why staz?
<StaZ> I don't know.
<StaZ> It's improbable.
<StaZ> But still, there might be a slight possiblity
<StaZ> As there is to everything.
<HBO> not at all....we are nothing but beings of energy, which can not be destroyed
<StaZ> Knowing a friend of mine, he'll  probably stock up on chocolate, coke and porn.
<StaZ> HBO: I thought of that too, actually.
<StaZ> Very interesting idea.
<StaZ> Energy is cannot created nor destroyed.
<HBO> just hold out your hand with a plain backgroun, let your eyes go out of focus, and you will see the energy surrounding your hand
<StaZ> It merely changes form
<StaZ> I meditate.
<HBO> do you believe in eternity?
<StaZ> In a way, yeah.
<StaZ> It's hard to describe what you feel surround life, time, death.
<StaZ> 'surrounding'
<StaZ> Argh, I'm a bit shabby tonight.
<HBO> then, something without end cannot have a beginning, so you have always been and will always be
<Angelic> bbl
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<StaZ> I know
<StaZ> It seems like the only time is now.
<StaZ> Time is a definition anyway.
<HBO> yes...I believe that all times, past present and future exist at once in different planes
<StaZ> yeah.
<StaZ> That's probable.
<HBO> like a big circle, but more like a sphere with infintesimal segments
<HBO> but I also believe that different dimensions exist at different frequencies
<StaZ> http://users.lycaeum.org/~martins/nibiru.html
<StaZ> np: Tool - Third Eye (13:47)
<StaZ> I love this song.
<StaZ> Ahh.
<StaZ> And Hicks at the beginning
<StaZ> "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration"
<StaZ> "That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively"
<StaZ> "There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we're the imagination of ourself"
<StaZ> Genius.
<HBO> have you ever read "Thiaoouba prophesy" by Michel Desmarquet?
<StaZ> No
<StaZ> "Dreaming of that face again, it's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide and comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes."
<HBO> good book, I'll see if I can find the link, you can get a free download
<HBO> brb
<StaZ> "On my back and tumbling. Down that hole and back again. Rising up and wapping the webs and the dew from my withered eye."
<StaZ> Ok, thanks.
<HBO> http://www.thiaoouba.com/seeau.htm
<HBO> start here and follow the links till you get to the book
<HBO> this site teaches you how to see auras, it works, at least on myself
<HBO> well, it's 8 pm here, so I need to get something to eat
<HBO> cya later
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<StaZ> Finally, Zeta Talk predicted several years ago that massive crop failures in the years 2000, 2001 and 2002 would harbinger the coming of Nibiru in 2003, and this has flatly not occurred. Clearly, Zeta Talk's record on predictions is far from accurate, and we make no exception for this fabled return of Nibiru in 2003. It should also be noted for the record that Sitchin places the next passage of Nibiru some 1,600 years into the future.
<StaZ> Oohhh.
<sapphire> .
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<StaZ> I bet it'll be here in 3620.
<StaZ> Or at least, that's what I'm hoping for, lol
<kotabatu> lol
<StaZ> hm
<kotabatu> staz any preparation at all for 2003
<StaZ> Not one.
<StaZ> WHY THE HELL is it bound to come May 2003?
<StaZ> why?
<StaZ> Can anyone explain this?
<kotabatu> curious that's all
<StaZ> And why can't we see it if it's 10 months away?
<StaZ> I mean... the theory is crumbling, here.
<kotabatu> guess we'll see in April 2003
<StaZ> All we'll see is Mars.
<kotabatu> ;)
<StaZ> It's gonna be the closest to earth in 200 years
<StaZ> So we'd better enjoy it :P
<kotabatu> later staz
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<Pott> It was never much of a theory
<Pott> More wishful thinking
<StaZ> Oh?
<Pott> Here is my mIRC multiserver essential script =)
<Pott> /mserver /server -m $$1
<Pott> /mnick {
<Pott>   %numservers = $scon(0)
<Pott>   var %i 1
<Pott>   while %i <= %numservers {
<Pott>     /scid $scon(%i).id
<Pott>     /scon -aT1 /nick $1
<Pott>     inc %i
<Pott>   }
<StaZ> Hm
<Pott> }
<StaZ> Remotes?
<Pott> Aliases
<StaZ> Oh+
<StaZ> Ahh.
<StaZ> How does it work?
<StaZ> What does it do?
<StaZ> Lol
*** Pott is now known as changes
<changes> /mnick changes your nick on all the IRC servers
*** changes is now known as Pott
<StaZ> Ok
<StaZ> i made something like that once.
<StaZ> It looked a bit simpler then though
<StaZ> Lol
<Pott> /mserver replaces /server -m
<Pott> Save 2 characters =)
<StaZ> Ooh
<StaZ> :P
<StaZ> So...
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<StaZ> Are you "buying" into the idea of the "Eon Blue Apocalypse2+
<StaZ> 2
<StaZ> "
<StaZ> lol
<StaZ> Wb Angelic.
<Angelic> thnx
<Pott> Not aware of the idea so how can I buy? hehehe
<StaZ> You know
<StaZ> Nibiru
<StaZ> The disaster in 2003.
<Angelic> Pott fell asleep? ;)
<StaZ> seems like it
<StaZ> Sad :\
<StaZ> Lol
<Angelic> brb
<Pott> Bah
<Pott> Stupid BS
<Pott> Someone jumped the gun with the idea and it got the rest of the fucking idiots going
<StaZ> Lol
<StaZ> Probably.
<Pott> Now everyone is.... Oh PX is coming 2003... Oh beware PX fuck off all y'all.
<StaZ> You're gold, man
<StaZ> lol
<StaZ> np: Tool - Triad (8:46)
<Pott> People gotta learn they are pawns in a big game of chess.
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<butch> hello
<Pott> As much as people think they know and want to believe that they know it's insignificant.
<StaZ> Filter information
<StaZ> Think for yourself
<Angelic> back
<StaZ> Question authority.
<Angelic> hi butch :)
<Pott> You gotta be on your toes otherwise someone else will be on theirs.
<StaZ> Hello butch.
<Angelic> well Pott, the game is multilayered, you think you'r not a pawn in any of the layers?
<Pott> I'm a pawn in this world
<Angelic> how does that feel?
<Pott> As we all are.
<StaZ> Are we?
<StaZ> Initially, yes.
<StaZ> But why not jump down from the chesstable.
<StaZ> Look around.
<StaZ> People need to start realizing that they're beeing fed with what authorities want them to believe.
<Pott> I don't really care because as you said the game is multilayered and this layer is not all that significant in comparision to the rest
<StaZ> Each day we're being manipulated
<StaZ> In more than a thousand ways.
<StaZ> And people aren't even questioning, let alone realizing it.
<StaZ> The world is going to hell, even if a giant fucking planet isn't crashing into us.
<StaZ> Or, it's not crashing but.
<StaZ> Oh you know the deal.
<butch> that's because we've been trained that way, StaZ..
<StaZ> Trained?
<StaZ> By whom?
<butch> not questioning..
<StaZ> What?
<butch> the media, tv...everything..
<StaZ> Yes.
<StaZ> I know
<StaZ> It's all linked.
<StaZ> Media.
<StaZ> Government.
<StaZ> Mainstream.
<StaZ> Music, clothes.
<StaZ> We're born as addicts.
<butch> yup
<StaZ> We're labelled and branded.
<butch> time to break the mold...;)
<StaZ> Yeah.
<StaZ> That's what it's about.
<StaZ> EVOLVING.
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<butch> i
<butch> im out good night
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<Angelic> StaZ, you're up late too hehe
<StaZ> :)
<StaZ> I am.
<StaZ> Hehe.
<StaZ> Damn, it's late.
<StaZ> I should be in bed.
<StaZ> I'm home alone, actually.
<StaZ> <- is 16
<StaZ> hahaha
<StaZ> :P
<Pott> The cosmosis
<Pott> Interestingly enough in the Cosmos a lot of events resemble that of biological function such as a super nova is a lot like mitosis.
<Pott> Or the merging of two Galaxies into one is like conception.
<Pott> It's like this because the Universe it's self is biological.
<StaZ> Yeah
<StaZ> I've read about that
<StaZ> The solar system is like a dna string
<StaZ> and in certain stellar positions, certain things happen
<StaZ> etc.
<StaZ> It's very weird.
<StaZ> Maybe we're just part of a larger biological organism?
<Angelic> National Geographic now reporting on the 'Druzes' people, for them its normal to remember past lifes. They interview some children who remember, then they check the data given and it checks ot, pretty cool. Reincarnation :)
<Pott> Our perception however restricts our ability to see that life is not just random here and there but the very thing that supports life is life.
<StaZ> Cool Angelic.
<StaZ> I don't have NGC :\
<Angelic> :/
<Pott> If you can get past some of our very ignorant perceptions then what is actual comes to light.
<Pott> We have one definition for life based on what we see on this Planet.
<StaZ> So right.
<Pott> When in actuality everything is alive.
<StaZ> We base ALL WE KNOW AND IMAGINE on human definition.
<StaZ> Human definition is obsolete.
<StaZ> There's not enough questions.
<StaZ> Without questions, there are no answers.
<StaZ> And so the riddle of life itself lays dormant.
<StaZ> "Don't question life, kid"
<Angelic> ah this is interesting.. they say that the children who do remember their deaths all had violent deaths, so they brought the suffering of that with them into this life and therefore they remember. Those who died a peaceful death have no suffering and can start anew in the next life, so do not remember.
<StaZ> Oh
<StaZ> Strange.
<Pott> The soul is a lot like a rope.
<Pott> You have the rope the soul but in that many strands which make it up.
<Angelic> makes sense
[StaZ:#Troubled_Times PING]
<Pott> Just a anaology.
<Angelic> violent death was sudden
<Pott> Each strand would represent a life
<Angelic> so nothing gets resolved, becomes baggage
<Angelic> yes Pott a nice metaphore
<Pott> Just an idea.
<Angelic> i like it, easy to visualize the structure
<StaZ> That idea is important.
<Pott> If you think about it we are a lot strands.
<StaZ> People with ideas are the ones that help us evolve.
<Angelic> so if I want to remember this life I guess I have to die a violent death hehe
<StaZ> Lol
<Pott> For instance i'm 21 years old if I went out 21 light years away I could see myself being born.
<StaZ> So it's a neverending spiral?
<Pott> That is if I could look down at the point of what it's happening.
<Angelic> yes Pott, but it would take you 21 light years at the speed of light to get at that point and by then you are 21 years further so you can see yourself at the point of departure
<Pott> Staz: It's more of a case of multiple spirals
<Angelic> if you travel at the speed of light hehe
<Pott> Well I mean get there instantly =)
<Pott> Essentially nothing is ever forgotten.
<Angelic> yeah :))
<Angelic> catching up with time
<Pott> As I said as well that the Universe is biological that would mean anything and everything in it is biological as well.
<Pott> Even all the light or any other radiation that comes off of us.
<Angelic> or gasses
<Pott> With all that said it means there is no death only life our perception of death is only energy transforming from one state to another.
<StaZ> Yes.
<StaZ> Now we're getting somewhere.
<Angelic> staz believe in reincarnation?
<StaZ> I'm not sure.
<Angelic> ok :)
<StaZ> ahahaha
<StaZ> oopsie, wrong *server*
<StaZ> lol
<StaZ> i'm on the undernet too, sorry.
<Pott> I don't know if reincarnation is the word for it anymore =)
<StaZ> "Change"?
<StaZ> Fitting description, don't you think?
<StaZ> Hehe
<Pott> I find it interesting how we communicate in the manner we do and at the same time can point out that were actually quite ignorant.
<Pott> As unevolved as it is.
<StaZ> Yeah.
<Pott> As "Earthly" as it is.
<Pott> It seems quite possible to strike down those barriers.
<Pott> Except you need willingness of all parties.
<StaZ> np: Tool - Forty Six & 2 (6:04)
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<StaZ> There are so many ignorant people living in this world.
<Pott> The biggest problem is that people are ignorant of ignorance.
<StaZ> People that allow themselves to be puppets and don't even question it.
<StaZ> Yeah.
<StaZ> Realization is imporant here.
<Pott> Actualization can only be found through the processes of realizations.
<StaZ> You're an interesting person.
<Pott> Understand that then it becomes possible to learn how one functions in conjunction with everything else.
<StaZ> Few of those these days.
<StaZ> A sort of symbiosis?
<Pott> I guess you could call it that.
<Pott> brb
<StaZ> np: Bill Hicks - 08 - Great Times on Drugs (11:23)
<Pott> All these conceptualizations have caused a nicfit.
<StaZ> Nicfit?
<Pott> Need a smoke.
<StaZ> Lol
<StaZ> Nicotine fit, ahhh.
<StaZ> I'm a docile jerk.
<Pott> It's fairly simple to learn your place in the Cosmos.
<Pott> Simply ask.
<Pott> However to do it requires true ambition.
<Pott> You have to want to know and understand otherwise nothing will materialize.
<Pott> I suspect just about anyone can do it but it requires a complete mindset shift.
<Pott> I can't tell you how to do it but I can describe it.
<Angelic> what's your place???
<Pott> My place is one amoung trilions.
<Jenkins3d> trailors
<Pott> LOL
<Jenkins3d> what web site did you get that stuff from pott?
<Jenkins3d> or did you channel it from your higher self?
<Pott> I'm in touch with my higher self.
<Pott> Don't need to channel nothing it's just there hehe.
<Jenkins3d> ok
<StaZ> Hallusinogenic Drugs?
<StaZ> :P
<Pott> I only smoke weed and that actually supresses my abilities.
<StaZ> Yes?
<StaZ> Heard of Bob Frissell?
<StaZ> Or Timothy Leary?
<StaZ> Bill Hicks?
<Pott> Nope
<StaZ> .\
<StaZ> :\
<Pott> Time for me to go
<Pott> Gotta go to my buddies house to smoke a weed session =)
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<Pott> I moke weed everyday.
<StaZ> Yes?
<StaZ> Interesting
<StaZ> You should pick up a book by Bob Frissell
<Pott> Probably a good thing otherwise I know my soul would go nuts
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<StaZ> "Nothing in This Book is True but It's Exactly How Things Are"
<Angelic> staz, getting light already out there :)
<StaZ> Yeah
<StaZ> It's fully lit outsie
<StaZ> side
<StaZ> I've home alone for like 2 weeks.
<Angelic> yeah
<Pott> Can't suppress it forever last time I missed a day of smoking weed I went into a vision state very quickly.
<StaZ> Not gonna sleep a lot
<Angelic> I only am still awake because I have a deadline :)
<StaZ> Lol, ok
<Angelic> can't disappoint Exact :)
<StaZ> Heard of Rennes-le-Chateu?
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<Angelic> not me
<StaZ> hm, ok.
<Pott> Later!
<StaZ> Bye Pott
<StaZ> Enjoy your session.
<StaZ> .)
<StaZ> :)
<RedzZzz> hey Pott... ciao
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<Red> hey J3
<Jenkins3d> hey
<Red> so what's new and exciting?
<Jenkins3d> i think my cat is gay
<Jenkins3d> abd thats bout it
<[3j]> http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~jbusby/images/SEXY_WOMAN.jpg
<Red> http://dowsers.info/toronto/PlanetX.htm is kind of interesting... old info but its in a regular news letter...  I guess dowsing is not exactly main stream tho hehe
<StaZ> Maybe it's just curious
<Red> lol
<Jenkins3d> and it feels like fall and its really nice
<Jenkins3d> im gonna print that and hang it on my wall
<Red> wow     hot a sheck here...    severe drought conditions I think, ranchers selling herds due to no feed in pastures
<StaZ> Suuuuure.
<StaZ> And all that is because the Celestial One is approaching.
<[3j]> lots of droughts staz..
<StaZ> yes?
<Red> you think they are not selling??   I don't pretend to ID the "source": sorry
<StaZ> Got proof?
<Red> Read the CBC site...
<[3j]> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22current+news%22+%2Bdroughts
<StaZ> HM
<StaZ> -hm
<StaZ> You know why that happens?
<StaZ> Pollution.
<StaZ> Hah.
<Red> local cattle prices are off 40% ... pretty bad for all
<StaZ> The thing I'm actually worried about when it comes to this is the increase of earthquakes and hard weather.
<StaZ> That's the only sign I can take "seriously"
<[3j]> sign?
<StaZ> But in a way, it all reminds me of "Heaven's Gate", lol
<Red> heh  yeah its pretty strange
<Jenkins3d> there is no increace.....so far this year it's been kinda quiet
<StaZ> In a report I read there was a profound increase since 2001
<StaZ> But then it might have been faked.
<StaZ> Easy to do that.
<Jenkins3d> yes...but not in 2002
<Red> 2002 is not over and long trends fluctuate a lot too
<Red> in the short run...
<StaZ> Let's just fucking hope it doesn't happen, ok?
<StaZ> Much easier for all of us.
<Red> hehe   you have my vote
<StaZ> At least those who have no means of surviving.
<StaZ> ;)
<Red> even with the means it will be no picnic
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<Red> what area are you watching for quakes?   I see mnount hood in WA is getting a bit of action and the Vesuvians hit the news a bit lately
<Red> Mount Hood...
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<Red> WB J3...   tough night there?
<Jenkins3d4> i dunno..the modem on my desktop is messed up and the one on my laptop works but i got disconnected anyway
<Red> I get that now and then too
<Red> brb
<Jenkins3d4> yeah, im just gonna get a new computewr
<Red> I should too but this one keep chugging along
<Red> this one is new to me too...   http://www.ambilac.com/
<StaZ> Just look at the site-design
<StaZ> It's a hoax.
<Jenkins3d4> humm..i hope this transformation stuff is for real
<Red> why does sight design equate with hoax?  too slick?
<StaZ> Lol
<StaZ> It's just..
<StaZ> Question it at least.
<Red> LOL   ya think?
<Jenkins3d4> new drug allows people to stay awake for 40 hours
<Red> sheesh... I hope the kid doesn
<Red> ''t find that one...
<StaZ> haha
<StaZ> That would be worse than a poleshift, huh?
<StaZ> :
<StaZ> :D
<Red> LOL   no kidding...   can you imagine the perpetual racket?
<StaZ> hahaha
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<Red> .me waves
* Red waves too
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<ukuz> hello
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<sirgrim> hehe
* sirgrim am hax troubled times
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<grimbot> Please stand by while I verify you are sirgrim
<grimbot> sirgrim is connecting from host: sirgrim@166.93.200.239
<grimbot> sirgrim verification is complete, granting sirgrim OP Status in #Troubled_Times
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<sirgrim> muaha
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<ukuz> hello
<sirgrim> hi
Session Close: Fri Jul 12 00:00:00 2002