Session Start: Thu Jan 30 23:03:54 2003
Session Ident: #EarthChanges
[23:03] * Now talking in #EarthChanges
[23:03] * Topic is 'Welcome to Earthchanges! Don't be rude and don't be a jerk!'
[23:03] * Set by tied on Sat Jan 25 13:52:07
[23:03] <Himitsu> smaller number is brighter
[23:03] <^Swanny^> dustreflects light
[23:04] <Himitsu> it can't stop infrared light
[23:04] <Himitsu> dust is invisible to infrared
[23:04] <^Swanny^> ok himi
[23:04] <Himitsu> but dust would reflect sunlight anyway
[23:04] <Tizza> ?? whot if the dust has enough large particles in it to stop infra reflection?
[23:04] <Himitsu> nope
[23:05] <Himitsu> infact, some of the best views  of this galaxy are achieved by infra red cameras
[23:05] <Tizza> hmm...ok i hear your point...not convinced but thats just how it is
[23:05] <Himitsu> because visible light is absorbed by dust
[23:05] <Tizza> i gotta go...cooking fresh fish for tea for my family
[23:05] <Himitsu> tea means dinner
[23:05] <^Swanny^> see my problem?  i got all this tech talk and not enough time to go out and become an astrolonomer so I gotta learn fromyou lot
[23:06] <Himitsu> this isn't tech talk at all
[23:06] <Himitsu> I can break it down more
[23:06] <Himitsu> if you want
[23:06] <Tizza> i thank you for your debate...also glad it did not deminish into insults as so often happens
[23:06] <Himitsu> np Tizza ! have a good dinner
[23:06] <^Swanny^> i know that, that is why im still listening...
[23:06] <Himitsu> I might have fish tonight too
[23:06] <Tizza> cheers :) l8r walt...swanny catch up with ya :0
[23:07] <walt> nite
[23:07] * Himitsu waves
[23:07] <^Swanny^> cya tizzza
[23:07] <Tizza> i cought these....much nicer in the mind :0
[23:07] <Tizza> cyas :):):):)
[23:07] <Himitsu> cya!
[23:07] * Tizza has left #EarthChanges
[23:07] <Himitsu> so what do you want to know Swanny?
[23:07] <^Swanny^> ok himi, we got an object in space
[23:07] <Himitsu> not sure really where to begin
[23:07] <Himitsu> k
[23:07] <^Swanny^> it has mass?
[23:07] <Himitsu> yes
[23:08] <^Swanny^> it has dust?
[23:08] <Himitsu> sure
[23:08] <^Swanny^> so, why can't you see it?
[23:08] <walt> : )
[23:08] <Himitsu> not being sarcastic here
[23:08] <Himitsu> really I am not
[23:08] <Himitsu> but it isn't there for me to see
[23:08] <^Swanny^> its ok
[23:08] <^Swanny^> fair enough
[23:09] <Himitsu> and I have been all over Orion with my scope because there is so many good things there to see
[23:09] <^Swanny^> is something in the way/ blocking it?
[23:09] <Himitsu> no
[23:09] <Himitsu> or you would see it
[23:09] <^Swanny^> is the sunlight interfereing
[23:09] <Himitsu> you would see the object blocking it, so you would see something
[23:09] <^Swanny^> ?
[23:09] <Himitsu> no
[23:09] <Himitsu> the sun would reflect off of it and you would see it
[23:10] <^Swanny^> if the object blocking it can be seen.
[23:10] <Himitsu> if the blocking object were closer, it would be visible
[23:10] <Himitsu> it would have to be fairly large too
[23:10] <^Swanny^> like seeing something black against the black sky
[23:10] <Himitsu> large would ultimately make it bright
[23:11] <^Swanny^> just see the outline as an absence of stars.
[23:11] <Himitsu> there are black asteroids, but they would reflect if it were past us
[23:11] <^Swanny^> like an eclipse
[23:11] <Himitsu> you are thinking, but not really
[23:11] * Aaaaa has joined #EarthChanges
[23:11] <Himitsu> sorry
[23:11] <Himitsu> that sousnded wrong
[23:11] <^Swanny^> thinking?  I'm drowning here. :)
[23:11] <Himitsu> I meant not really in the eclipse aspect
[23:11] * Aaaaa has left #EarthChanges
[23:11] <Himitsu> lol
[23:12] <^Swanny^> is px supposed to be generating its own light?
[23:12] <Himitsu> for one thing, nancy says it is a brown dwarf
[23:12] <Himitsu> which means it wouldn't be generating much viasible light
[23:12] <Himitsu> but it would be making lots of infrared light
[23:13] <Himitsu> which isn't there
[23:13] <^Swanny^> see i don't know what a brown dwarf is, so i couldn't say it isn;t one.
[23:13] <Himitsu> but keep in mind, admission on my own part
[23:13] <Himitsu> you and I can't see infrared
[23:13] <Himitsu> I think goldfish can
[23:13] <^Swanny^> can your scope?
[23:13] <Himitsu> but they won't answer if you ask them
[23:13] <Himitsu> =)
[23:13] <Zetapal> lol
[23:13] <^Swanny^> can you put a camera on your scope?
[23:14] <Himitsu> my scope will not let you view infra red either
[23:14] <Himitsu> it has what is called a corrector plate attatched to the front
[23:14] <^Swanny^> ok,
[23:14] <Himitsu> that is where the secondary mirror is mounted
[23:14] <Himitsu> while dust is transparent to infrared light, glass is opaque
[23:15] <Himitsu> infrared will not pass through glass
[23:15] <^Swanny^> i can put a 600ml with a doubler onto a motion picture camera with infra red sensitive film in it.
[23:15] <Himitsu> yes
[23:15] * Looking up Viscid user info...
[23:15] <Himitsu> but remember, almost everything in the sky lets out infrared
[23:15] * Looking up walt user info...
[23:15] * Looking up Terminal user info...
[23:15] <Himitsu> actually, our sky is bad for infrared
[23:15] <^Swanny^> 1200ml lens, what mag is that?
[23:16] <Himitsu> that is why sicentists like to put infrared cameras in space
[23:16] <Himitsu> no idea
[23:16] * Aaaaa has joined #EarthChanges
[23:16] <Himitsu> but, don't forget the supposed white persona
[23:16] <Himitsu> and the whole persona thing is a bit of a stretch to be blunt
[23:16] <^Swanny^> see i couldnt even read that stuff
[23:17] <Himitsu> hehe
[23:17] <Himitsu> it isn't that hard really
[23:17] <Himitsu> you just have to start reading
[23:17] <^Swanny^> i cannot read scientific stuff coming from non-scientists
[23:17] <^Swanny^> its just not right and i think you agree
[23:17] <Himitsu> you would be surprised what you can read if you give yourself a chance
[23:18] <^Swanny^> a lot of the zetatalk goes around in circles.
[23:18] <Himitsu> agree with what?
[23:18] <^Swanny^> mate I read 24/7
[23:18] <Himitsu> good
[23:18] <Himitsu> read something else
[23:18] <^Swanny^> that non scientists should learn about what they are talking about to get the communication working properly
[23:19] <^Swanny^> I thought a pole shift was the magnetic poles swappnig polarity.
[23:19] <Himitsu> get a college lvl book then
[23:19] <Himitsu> that happens
[23:19] <Himitsu> the poles do shift in that sense
[23:19] <Himitsu> they are now
[23:19] <^Swanny^> yeah I know
[23:19] <Himitsu> they are always moving
[23:19] <Himitsu> a few feet a year
[23:19] <^Swanny^> I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about
[23:19] <Himitsu> sometimes back
[23:19] * _Jenn_ has joined #EarthChanges
[23:20] <^Swanny^> do you think we will feel a poleshift?
[23:20] <_Jenn_> hi
[23:20] <^Swanny^> hiya Jenn
[23:20] <Himitsu> in nancy's terms?
[23:20] <Zetapal> Hi Jenn
[23:20] <_Jenn_> hows it going?
[23:20] <^Swanny^> no, in scientific terms, your opinion
[23:20] <Himitsu> a magnetic shift?
[23:20] <Himitsu> or a world flipping shift?
[23:21] <^Swanny^> both
[23:21] <Himitsu> nancy's no
[23:21] <Himitsu> the magnetic one is pretty much always happening
[23:21] <Himitsu> little by little
[23:22] <^Swanny^> yes, but we can't discount magnetism can we?
[23:22] <Himitsu> and if the magnetic poles were to shift I am not exactly sure what the results would be aside from your compass not working
[23:22] * _Jenn_ has quit IRC
[23:22] <Himitsu> no, we need the magnetic poles
[23:22] <Himitsu> they provide a shield of sorts agains the sun's radiation
[23:23] <Himitsu> against
[23:23] <^Swanny^> me either.
[23:23] <Himitsu> but it isn't going to happen in one day
[23:23] <Himitsu> or a year
[23:23] <^Swanny^> I would tend to agree with you
[23:23] <Himitsu> and the axis of the earth isn't going to flip or tilt
[23:23] <^Swanny^> somehting that huge like slowing rotation ...
[23:23] <^Swanny^> in one week?
[23:24] <Himitsu> and certainly not stop rotating
[23:24] <^Swanny^> I wanna see that.
[23:24] <Himitsu> I don't
[23:24] <walt> and flip in one hr?
[23:24] <^Swanny^> lol you know what I mean
[23:24] <Himitsu> it would most likely suck to be blunt
[23:24] <Himitsu> lol
[23:25] <^Swanny^> surely the flip is instantaneous, its either travelling one way, or going the other.
[23:25] <^Swanny^> wait,  you mean its supposed to pause and then turn the other way>
[23:25] <Himitsu> if the mass of the earth were to flip instantly, it would be over
[23:25] <Himitsu> all over
[23:25] <walt> 90 degrees
[23:25] <^Swanny^> 90 degrees what?
[23:26] <Himitsu> imagine stopping your car at 1000mph and going in a different direction
[23:26] <walt> tilt the new poles will be india and brazil
[23:26] <^Swanny^> o ty walt
[23:26] <Himitsu> well, I am not going to hold my breath on that one
[23:26] <^Swanny^> yeah, especially if my car weighed as much as the earth.
[23:26] <^Swanny^> had as much mass sorry.
[23:27] <walt> that means the earth will tilt 4000 miles in 1 hr
[23:27] <Himitsu> there is a lot of what nancy says that just doesn't make any kind of sense
[23:27] <Himitsu> actually all of it pretty much
[23:27] <^Swanny^> ok so we got the physical px out of the sky, the earths rotation,
[23:27] <^Swanny^> what about the impossible?
[23:27] <^Swanny^> what if the impossible were to happen?
[23:28] <walt> thats the 1%
[23:28] <Himitsu> that is a bit of a contradiction
[23:28] <Himitsu> like the immovable object vs. irresistable force
[23:28] <^Swanny^> I mean you can rely on everything humanity knows up to now, Newton and Gallileo and their mates
[23:28] <^Swanny^> but we are in new times.
[23:28] * humvee has joined #EarthChanges
[23:28] <^Swanny^> we have run out of prophecy
[23:28] <Himitsu> new times don't require new laws of physics
[23:29] <walt> Hi HUM
[23:29] <^Swanny^> maybe it is time for somehting unknown to happen
[23:29] <humvee> hello
[23:29] <Himitsu> the inverse square law still applies
[23:29] <^Swanny^> something that we cannot concieve in our minds based on what we know.
[23:29] <Himitsu> orbital mechanics still apply
[23:29] <^Swanny^> but it doesn't have to apply himitsu
[23:29] <Himitsu> gravity is the same everywhere, it still applies
[23:29] <humvee> listening to coast2coastam?
[23:29] <Himitsu> it does have to
[23:29] <^Swanny^> the inverse square law is a man made relativity
[23:30] <Himitsu> not quite
[23:30] <^Swanny^> SO FAR, gravity is the same everywhere
[23:30] <Himitsu> it is a description of the way the universe is
[23:30] * vn has joined #EarthChanges
[23:30] <^Swanny^> orbital mechanics are an observation.
[23:30] <^Swanny^> it is a description of the way the universe has been observed up to now.
[23:31] <Himitsu> they are a law based on observation and experiment
[23:31] <^Swanny^> you see where i am trying to go?
[23:31] <Himitsu> I see where you are trying to go
[23:31] <^Swanny^> yes they are,
[23:31] <humvee> gravity varies greatly humans are only familliar with their local environment
[23:31] <^Swanny^> take this into the spiritual realm
[23:31] <Himitsu> but it will end up with you bashing your head against a wall
[23:31] <^Swanny^> there everything imagined is possible
[23:31] <Himitsu> I'm done
[23:31] <^Swanny^> you just have to focus on it.
[23:32] <^Swanny^> sure, I won't hold that against you.
[23:32] <Zetapal> if your gonna jump out of the realm of what is known and accepted then you want to have a reason to do so, suspicion for the sake of suspicion is not sound or advisable, it just makes you a suspicious person, thats all, and you don't wanna be that
[23:32] <^Swanny^> its not a belief I have, its my understanding of the way reality works.
[23:32] * Terminal_2 has quit IRC
[23:33] <^Swanny^> where did you get suspician from
[23:33] <^Swanny^> what about creation?
[23:33] <Zetapal> ?
[23:33] <^Swanny^> my understanding of the way MY reality works and how I percieve it.
[23:34] <^Swanny^> ZP, it is time to LIVE outside the realm of what is known and accepted purely because what is known is no longer accepted.
[23:35] <walt> why do I hear the theme song of the X-files???
[23:35] <walt> : )
[23:36] <^Swanny^> you are showing your spiritual immaturity again waltie love.
[23:36] <Himitsu> ^Swanny^: sorry, but after what humvee said, I am kind of finished
[23:36] <walt> yep...that
[23:37] <walt> ZT dogma
[23:37] <^Swanny^> yes, well you can't argue with that logic can you.
[23:37] <^Swanny^> you are the same you know,  
[23:37] <^Swanny^> science dogma
[23:37] <Himitsu> it isn't that it is dogma
[23:37] <Himitsu> but there isn't any evidence for it
[23:38] <^Swanny^> yes that is exactly what I mean
[23:38] <scooby-afk> himitsu: when you say that gravity is the same everywhere, where besides earth have you checked it?
[23:38] <Himitsu> mars
[23:38] <Himitsu> moon
[23:38] <Himitsu> venus
[23:38] <Himitsu> jupite
[23:38] <Himitsu> saturn
[23:38] <scooby-afk> ok, that is our solar system
[23:38] <^Swanny^> there is no evidence for most of science too, when you define the word 'evidence'
[23:38] <scooby-afk> how about outside it?
[23:38] <Himitsu> observations of stars around ultra dense objects
[23:38] <Zetapal> well where you live I suspect has more to do with your perception and experience more than the physics of how planets work - now if this nibiru thing is gonna happen it'll be because our science overlooked or was unaware of some thing, not because of a need we have - finding that somethiing we've missed is the thing on which to base reason
[23:38] <Himitsu> observations of planets orbiting other stars
[23:39] <^Swanny^> all based on the effects one body seems to have on another...
[23:39] <^Swanny^> let me think for an eg
[23:39] <Himitsu> Swanny
[23:39] <Himitsu> that is all gravity is
[23:39] <^Swanny^> the trees sway therefore there must be wind.
[23:39] <humvee> core activity of a planetary body can radically change its gravity waves
[23:39] <scooby-afk> which are made using man-made definitions of gravity
[23:39] <Himitsu> the effects objects have on eachother
[23:40] <^Swanny^> all based on perception which, cantrary to scientiffic opinion is not constant
[23:40] <Himitsu> don't understand
[23:40] <^Swanny^> see?
[23:40] <Himitsu> I don't understand
[23:40] <Himitsu> no
[23:41] * raincity is now known as raincityAFK
[23:41] <scooby-afk> himitsu: what is your impression of this link:
[23:41] <scooby-afk> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/brown_dwarf_flare_000712.html
[23:41] <^Swanny^> open your mind to the concept that perseption is not constant
[23:41] <^Swanny^> btwn ppl
[23:41] <Himitsu> sec
[23:42] <scooby-afk> and this one http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0205/22closest/
[23:42] <scooby-afk> new stuff being found all the time
[23:43] <Himitsu> first impression from a zt perspective, it would suck to live on a brown dwarf
[23:43] <scooby-afk> things that were previously thought impossible get overturned all the time
[23:43] <Zetapal> I guess the point I'm trying to make is that reality exists regardless of our perception of it, it simply doesn't care whether we understand it or not, it doesn't shape itself to fit us therefore we must seek IT out, and find out what IT is, it cares not a wit for our perceptions
[23:43] <scooby-afk> only if you live in a certain physical reality
[23:43] <Himitsu> not things so fundamental as the inverse square law
[23:43] <^Swanny^> yes, scooby, but still only within known boundaries up till now
[23:44] <Himitsu> brown dwarves are supposed to be non-fusing afaik
[23:44] <Himitsu> brb
[23:44] <^Swanny^> can I recommend some reading for you himitsu?
[23:44] <Zetapal> now if your gonna talk about MY reality or MY world, well, thats just you, you did that
[23:44] <scooby-afk> what about when ppl thought they knew it all only to find out that the earth is not the center of the universe or even the solar system
[23:44] <Himitsu> xrays indicate fusion
[23:45] <scooby-afk> wasnt there even a scientist who proved thru the use of known mathematics that the sun revolved around the earth?
[23:45] <Himitsu> not that I know of
[23:45] <Himitsu> unless you are talking about ...
[23:46] <Himitsu> can't remember his name
[23:46] <scooby-afk> ptolemy?
[23:46] <Himitsu> I think
[23:46] <Himitsu> maybe
[23:46] <^Swanny^> familiar with Nic Tesla?
[23:46] <scooby-afk> that's my point.  science, even as advanced as we think it is, is still not the end all be all
[23:46] <scooby-afk> i am swanny
[23:46] <Himitsu> but his astronomy was based on elipses of the other planets
[23:46] <scooby-afk> it was right at that time tho
[23:47] <Himitsu> it was wrong, just that nobody knew it
[23:47] <scooby-afk> lol
[23:47] <scooby-afk> listen to what you are saying
[23:47] <Himitsu> and he was wrong to assume that retrograde motion was an elipse
[23:47] <^Swanny^> himi? Nic Tesla allegedly smashed some pretty hardcore laws of physics.
[23:47] <walt> Mimsy Were the Borogoves.....
[23:47] <scooby-afk> that's what they're gonna say about us when we're gone
[23:47] <Himitsu> well, I still don't see anybody overturning the inverse square law?
[23:48] <scooby-afk> hold on dearly to it
[23:48] <Himitsu> scooby-afk: we aren't going anywhere quite yet
[23:48] <scooby-afk> of course, not everything is wrong
[23:48] <^Swanny^> yes it is
[23:48] <^Swanny^> you are all wrong
[23:48] <^Swanny^> heres the right of it.
[23:48] <scooby-afk> bwahahahahahaha
[23:48] <^Swanny^> I am god and yu will all be my slaves
[23:48] <scooby-afk> yes massa
[23:49] * ^Swanny^ shows scooby the skin on the back of her hand
[23:49] <^Swanny^> silence minion
[23:49] <^Swanny^> in all seriousness himi,
[23:49] <^Swanny^> have you read any Seth Material?
[23:50] <^Swanny^> very pragmatic
[23:50] <^Swanny^> got me, from a pure science background to talking about meditation.
[23:50] <Zetapal> science as a practice is constantly on the move, adding to itself an understanding of the world we live in, if we focus on errors in thinking that have occured or the niavite of science as a practice in its infancy, then do we throw out science altogether? no of course not, because science as a practice seeks science as an ideal which is nothing less than uncovering the intricacy of the reality around us
[23:50] <^Swanny^> of course that was 15 years ago, but I feel strongly that Jane Roberts stuff will resonate for you.
[23:51] <scooby-afk> well said zetapal
[23:51] <scooby-afk> what resonated for me very strongly was reading ruth montgomery
[23:51] <^Swanny^> science, the art of naming things.
[23:51] <walt> 'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
[23:51] <walt> Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
[23:51] <walt> All mimsy were the borogoves,
[23:51] <walt> And the mome raths outgrabe.
[23:51] <^Swanny^> but which comes first the object or the name?
[23:51] <scooby-afk> i thought that's where you were going with that walt
[23:52] <scooby-afk> the chicken of course
[23:52] * ^Swanny^ takes out a vorpal blade and snicker snack goodbye walt
[23:52] <walt> "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
[23:52] <walt> The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
[23:52] <walt> Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
[23:52] <walt> The frumious Bandersnatch!"
[23:53] <^Swanny^> yes yes walt
[23:53] <^Swanny^> I used those verses when I was a camera assistant
[23:54] <^Swanny^> standing-in in front of the camera the sound guy invariably asks you to say something for his levels
[23:54] <^Swanny^> so out comes the jabberwocky, or some really vulgar lymrics not to be repeated here.
[23:55] <^Swanny^> have you seen John Edwards' show Himitsu?
[23:55] <Himitsu> no
Session Close: Fri Jan 31 00:00:00 2003