Session Start: Sun Dec 08 00:00:00 2002
Session Ident: #Troubled_Times
[00:00] <monk> and 2 days testing
[00:00] <monk> thats all
[00:00] <[3j]> 2 days here too, first was the prequal test, the second the final test
[00:01] <[3j]> GED is very gay though
[00:01] <[3j]> gimme some high quald HS diploma anyday
[00:01] <[3j]> but hey, at least it works
[00:01] <monk> yea
[00:01] <monk> they said in some ways ged is better
[00:03] <[3j]> bs..
[00:03] <[3j]> for me it was great, gave me instant ticket to college level education
[00:03] <[3j]> but still, bs
[00:04] <[3j]> spoke to a few college sales people
[00:04] <[3j]> the private types always said 'aaah ged is the best! finish early get in our private colleges early!'
[00:04] <[3j]> devry was one :P
[00:04] <[3j]> hehe
[00:05] <[3j]> fuck em all, those people in there are prolly all strugling anyway :)
[00:05] <monk> yea
[00:05] <monk> well ill cya later
[00:05] <[3j]> cya monk
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[02:30] <will2097> hello
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[02:48] <RNTHOMAS> Anyone alive here..  
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[07:31] <obany> getting colder here ..... below 0 C
[07:38] <Jurian> heh, -22C here
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[07:39] <Howmo> Hey S7L.
[07:40] <Howmo> Hey obany.
[07:40] <Howmo> Obany, I have a question.
[07:40] <juditness> nice nick. :D
[07:41] <Howmo> Why is it that Nancy, Dell and Havas can present astronomical information....
[07:41] <Howmo> ... but when people respond with questions about that....
[07:42] <Howmo> ... you cut them down and tell them: "this is not sci.astro"?
[07:43] <Howmo> Hi, Judit.
[07:43] <Howmo> ..or juditness...
[07:43] <Howmo> Why are there two of you?
[07:43] <juditness> we are sisters
[07:44] <juditness> and lesbian lovers.
[07:44] <juditness> :)
[07:44] <Howmo> REally?
[07:44] <juditness> yes :)
[07:44] <fetus> saw a funny headline on cnn yesterday... it said "SHOWDOWN IRAQ - Operation Internal Look"    Oil for short :)
[07:44] <Howmo> You are just funnin' me.
[07:44] <juditness> no i am not.
[07:44] <juditness> we are twins really.
[07:44] <juditness> judit is the good girl
[07:44] <juditness> and she hates irc too
[07:44] <juditness> i am the bad girl
[07:45] <juditness> and i like the funnet boys :)
[07:45] <Howmo> How "bad" are you?
[07:45] <juditness> as bad as it gets. :)
[07:45] <Howmo> Yikes...
[07:45] <Howmo> Mama...
[07:45] <juditness> i thought howmos had nothing against lesbians. :)
[07:46] <Howmo> Nothing here.
[07:46] <fetus> O.I.L
[07:47] <Howmo> We like them just fine.
[07:48] <Howmo> We want them to come over and play.
[07:49] <juditness> but we only like each other
[07:49] <juditness> even our mom is worried. :(
[07:50] <juditness> and now
[07:50] <juditness> if you would excuse me
[07:50] <juditness> i must go and "take care" of my sister. :)
[07:50] <juditness> she needs me. :)
[07:51] <Howmo> Ok. Have fun.
[07:53] <S7L> hi idont
[07:53] <fetus> they havent mentioned anything about oil in iraq on cnn
[07:53] <Howmo> Hey- I see you were getting some airplay on IRC yesterday.
[07:54] <obany> you know what howmo go lay around with your buddies on sci.astro
[07:54] <obany> play
[07:54] <S7L> Howmo: yes, a learnt opinion from Nancy even.
[07:54] <Howmo> Hey, obany.
[07:55] <S7L> Oh, I'm honoured to hear that I'm in denial and not supporting the overall cause.
[07:55] <Howmo> So sad for you S7
[07:55] <Howmo> Obany- see my question above?
[07:55] <fetus> whats the overall cause?
[07:55] <S7L> fetus: dunno, you need to ask nancy for it
[07:56] <obany> Howmo: and i am not going to answer your question, howmo and you know that by now
[07:56] <Howmo> Why not?
[07:56] <fetus> why nancy
[07:56] <fetus> she does nothing but tell me what i already know
[07:56] <Howmo> What doe the charter of this group say?
[07:56] <fetus> :)
[07:57] <Howmo> obany, doesn't it say something about discussing whether pX exists or not?
[07:57] <obany> well then it would be better that i leave for few minuts instead of giving you an answer
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[07:57] <S7L> hey howmo do you have any opinion on this latest smudge? The thing marked as red light seemed like it was a real astronomic object
[07:58] <S7L> MC already said that it would be a star in the position but in my opinion, there's nothing I could clearly say to be a star in the dss2 red shot which I happened to recover... Although there *is* something faint around that region, just pretty damn faint for any clear identification
[07:59] <S7L> it's funny how stuff looks different between different cameras, brightnesses change, some stars seem to merge into one, etc.
[07:59] <Howmo> I haven't looked at any alternate explanations yet, but it certainly looks like an object this time.
[07:59] <S7L> Well, MC's take is that there is a catalogued star about exactly in that position
[07:59] <Howmo> Right, I saw that.
[07:59] <fetus> you guys are funny
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[07:59] <S7L> and by exactly I mean apparently less than arcsecond precision
[08:00] <Howmo> Problem is as usual--- squinting at the noise floor.
[08:00] <S7L> well yeah.
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[08:00] <fetus> woops
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[08:01] <Howmo> nancy has forced us to squint at the noise floor and debate tine specks.
[08:01] <Howmo> tiny
[08:01] <fetus> and your still soo concerned with what nancey is saying...
[08:01] * ChanServ sets mode: +o obany
[08:01] <fetus> ingore the zeta babble for a few weeks..
[08:01] <Howmo> That is exactly like your points yesterday about the lack of previous real objects.
[08:02] <Howmo> nancy bases new claims on false previous ones.
[08:02] <obany> Howmo: get real man
[08:02] <S7L> fetus: I'm personally concerned of the fact that there are a bunch of people who believe the kind of air of credibility Nancy can breathe in her somewhat careful misrepresentations of fact
[08:02] <fetus> and what harm will come to them for that??
[08:02] <Howmo> Obany, there have been nothing but noise specks till now.
[08:02] <scooby> howmo: and what are your "claims" based on?  Hundreds of years of science?
[08:02] <obany> howmo:L doh
[08:03] <S7L> and I winch every time I read her spout that stuff about her accuracy which is not really accuracy but manipulated (unintentionally) by nancy to appear so :-(
[08:03] <scooby> Science which thought the sun revolved around the earth for the longest time?
[08:03] <Howmo> I have asked you before if you know how to identify noise in an image.
[08:03] <obany> i bow for the almighty I am open minded
[08:03] <scooby> and called a man a heretic for suggesting anything otherwise?
[08:03] <S7L> fetus: I just see it is necessary to counter disinformation when disinformation exists. It is necessary to call someone for lies when someone tells lies. That is all.
[08:03] <obany> whatever imo says goes
[08:03] <S7L> IMO hasn't said *anything* of these latest pictures so far
[08:03] <Howmo> Obany, why don't you just look at the info instead of picking personalities?
[08:04] <fetus> put if its true...your certainly not helping them and if its not...nothing has changed, you still didnt help them.
[08:04] <S7L> anyone with some eyes could identify that this time there *is* something that at least looks like real object
[08:04] <fetus> pu=but
[08:04] <fetus> put :)
[08:04] <S7L> fetus: some people have thanked me for my efforts so far
[08:04] <obany> i did looked that the info so
[08:04] <Howmo> Yes, S7L, and contrary to what Nancy always says, we admit that.
[08:04] <S7L> another bunch dislike me, but anyway, I don't care. I do what I do because of personal interest in this zetatalk thing.
[08:04] <Howmo> We admit that there seems to be an object there.
[08:05] <fetus> well at least your interested
[08:05] <S7L> What I don't know if it's Planet X, Variable star, Asteroid, or a field star which is very faintly rendered in the DSS2 images.
[08:05] <scooby> and the earth "seems" to revolve around the sun
[08:05] <S7L> MC says it's field star. I can't agree because it's so hard to make anything out of the noise on the dss2
[08:05] <Howmo> Obany, all you can say is:"get real"- you can't actually discuss the evidence.
[08:06] <obany> ooh well ...
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[08:06] <S7L> Since PLanet X has other impossibilities it's suffering from, I think we can just drop that explanation though
[08:06] <S7L> Just said it to make a point.
[08:06] <fetus> im more concerned about the current buch war monger and world wide weather changes then some specs on a photo..
[08:06] <Howmo> S7, what I do know is that this object will not show up at Nancy's next position.
[08:06] <S7L> those are good things to be concerned about, I guess.
[08:07] <Howmo> fetus; "specks"?
[08:07] <S7L> Howmo: I'm worried at the fact that Nancy will claim that this picture is something like "indisputable evidence" that absolutely settles the issue.
[08:07] <Howmo> Of course she will
[08:07] <S7L> She might not be happy with SteveH who comes up with next set of pictures and finds nothing
[08:07] <fetus> dots, pricks, smudges...stars, planets, asteriods..whatever
[08:07] <Howmo> She already has been doing that.
[08:08] <Howmo> Well, fetus, my point was that this is Nancy's "proof".
[08:08] <Howmo> Astronomy is a good tool if used properly.
[08:08] <Howmo> nancy is abusing it.
[08:08] <fetus> why arnt the pictures in color?
[08:09] <Howmo> Surely you jest?
[08:09] <S7L> well, actually I can't say nancy is "abusing" astronomy. I think one needs to understand astronomy to abuse it. She simply says something that sounds odd but it's not astronomy
[08:09] <Howmo> She has hijacked images and misrepresented them.
[08:09] <Howmo> THat is abuse.
[08:09] <S7L> and while she keeps on stating stuff that is easily refutable by anyone with a general education in science, she will get the kind of leisure guys like me to occasionally poke a few holes into it.
[08:10] <Howmo> You made good points yesterday.
[08:10] <S7L> ok. I'm *more* invested than just leisure, but the general idea is that those guys have also been to here
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[08:10] * ChanServ sets mode: +o obany
[08:11] <Howmo> It's just that she won't go back and uphold her previous false claims
[08:11] <Howmo> She just considers them "proven".
[08:11] <Howmo> Then she builds on them and moves foreward.
[08:12] <S7L> it's amazing, really. It's a bit like you were watching a frantic ant building a sant castle with all the foundations constantly falling apart
[08:12] <S7L> the ant just goes on and almost nothing of the castle remains... That's what it looks like to me
[08:12] <S7L> but someone who only comes to the scene, sees a huge castle with incredible wealth of information and evidence
[08:12] <obany> !kick howmo stop bashing, if you wonna say something then say it into her face directly
[08:12] * Howmo was kicked by ChanServ (stop bashing, if you wonna say something then say it into her face directly (obany))
[08:12] <obany> the same thing counts for you antti
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[08:12] <S7L> so that's the spirit here now.
[08:13] <S7L> Next session, I guess I'll do that.
[08:13] <S7L> Will I not be kick-banned? Promise? *asks the empty channel*
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[08:14] <fetus> well you guys are arguing a worthless subject...if it dosent happen, no one gets hurt.
[08:14] <Howmo> Obany, you ass.
[08:14] <Howmo> Fetus, we are not arguing.
[08:14] <S7L> fetus: well, I disagree. People *do* get hurt
[08:14] <S7L> and Nancy Lieder is in need for professional help.
[08:14] <fetus> i've never seen you say anything positive in here
[08:14] <Howmo> We are discussing an interesting topic.
[08:14] <fetus> not discussing, trying to disprove
[08:14] <Howmo> "positive"?
[08:15] <Howmo> Nancy IS disproven..
[08:15] <S7L> We don't "try" to disprove. I maintain Nancy's rubbish disproves itself. But it takes a few people to point it out.
[08:15] <Howmo> over and over again...
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[08:15] * ChanServ sets mode: +o obany
[08:15] <Howmo> Obany, you ass....
[08:15] <obany> thnx
[08:15] <obany> my ass is great
[08:16] <S7L> obany: so, if in next session I do say this crap to her face, will you promise not to kickban me?
[08:16] <Howmo> Matter of opinion, I'm sure.
[08:16] <fetus> so if you see it in the sky next spring, what will you do?
[08:16] <S7L> The only reason why I don't do it, is because I estimate that I get kickbanned within 30 seconds
[08:16] <Howmo> Yes, obany, will you ALLOW this "to her face"??
[08:16] <obany> it's a matter of honesty ... and not during a ession
[08:16] <S7L> So I try to keep it in limits, estimating the tolerance of the operators, and relying that Nancy will do her thing.
[08:16] <obany> not during
[08:16] <Howmo> honesty about what, obany?
[08:16] <fetus> so IF you see it in the sky next spring, what will you do?
[08:17] <Howmo> See what, fetus?
[08:17] <fetus> px
[08:17] <fetus> of course
[08:17] <S7L> fetus: The only thing I expect to see it is Mars
[08:17] <Howmo> Where is it going to come from?
[08:17] <obany> i guess then s7l will move then, or he will loudly say it's mars it's mars ...
[08:17] <obany> ahum
[08:17] <fetus> so you cant even accept the possibility
[08:17] <fetus> that says alot..
[08:17] <Howmo> By the way, fetus, do yo know that it will be "in the Sun" in the spring?
[08:17] <fetus> i say IF
[08:18] <S7L> fetus: Planet X does not exist nor can it make here by 2003 if it is nearly invisible now. These are the difficulties of the reality we share, it is still bound by the general laws of physics as humanity knows them. They are valid so far, and work for everything except Planet X.
[08:18] <fetus> I have heard that
[08:18] <Howmo> Fetus, nancy will have people out staring into the sun to try and see it.
[08:18] <fetus> i didnt ask you wether it exists or not...i said what will you do IF you see it in the sky next spring
[08:18] <obany> so you just can't accept it cause it disagrees with the bouds of science
[08:18] <obany> doh
[08:18] <S7L> fetus: I just explained that it's worthless to consider that because it just can't happen.
[08:19] <obany> !addtimedban howmo bye 120
[08:19] <fetus> ok s7l...got ya loud and clear
[08:19] <Howmo> Fetus, it's a stupid question.
[08:19] <S7L> fetus: If you asked me "what do I do if planet x comes by 2012", then I consider.
[08:19] <fetus> ok howmo....got ya loud and clear
[08:19] <obany> !addtimedban howmo 120 bye
[08:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +b *!*@ip-216-222-15-132.salmoninternet.com
[08:19] * Howmo was kicked by ChanServ (bye (obany))
[08:19] <S7L> about 9 years is a lot of extra time for an unknown planet to arrive. 6 months or so -- that's not.
[08:20] <obany> at least some peace and quiet even for 2 minuts
[08:20] <fetus> i just said if...
[08:20] <S7L> I still wouldn't trust Nancy for the source of information. I've already seen there's a great level of data that just isn't correct
[08:20] <fetus> and you both cant even accept and if
[08:20] <obany> so just a rethorical question for, what if it does occur next spring, what if you realy wll see it?
[08:20] <fetus> and=an
[08:20] <obany> really?
[08:21] <obany> not Mars but Planet X
[08:21] <obany> ?
[08:21] <S7L> so I wouldn't be rushing in for an apology, but I would grant her some respect for being correct about the impossible and the implausible.
[08:21] <fetus> thats what i wanted to see :)..an if
[08:21] <fetus> would you try and prepare?
[08:21] <S7L> I still wouldn't expect the body to actually cause a pole shift. The physics of that scenario are not plausible.
[08:21] * ChanServ sets mode: -b *!*@ip-216-222-15-132.salmoninternet.com
[08:21] <S7L> But naturally, having her right about PX
[08:21] <S7L> 's appearance would be quite amazing
[08:22] <fetus> my dad said he's a fatalist...he's going down with the ship
[08:22] <S7L> and it would force each and everyone to reconsider even the implausible physics of what she offers
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[08:22] <obany> so what about earth entering 4th density, like the book of Ra says?
[08:22] <Howmo> Obany, what is WRONG with you??
[08:23] <S7L> obany: the densities are not explained clearly, nor can they be detected in an objective fashion.
[08:23] <Howmo> Is this the only power you can weild in your life?
[08:23] <S7L> I understand "4th density" can help you to make a parallel for something like spiritual evolving
[08:24] <S7L> but the 4th density as physical reality with stuff just doesn't survive in my head as I try to understand it. I can talk about "4th density" as "paradigm for evolving consciousness" and "age of aquarius" and whatnot
[08:24] <S7L> but as physical reality, I can't make heads or tails out of what zetatalk says about it
[08:25] <obany> so because it disagrees with science it's well difficult for you to grasp upon ..
[08:25] <fetus> im sure what we call solid science right now will be bullshit rubbish 10000 years from now..
[08:25] <obany> but at least you doesn't go that far to say that everything should be proven ... or do you ?
[08:25] <S7L> obany: no. It's internally inconsistent.
[08:25] <Howmo> Fetus, If i believed nancy, I would not be waiting till spring to take action. That would be too late.
[08:25] <S7L> The problem is for instance that in 4th density Earth should be there... and it should be there in 3rd density, too
[08:26] <S7L> and the zetas live in underseas facilities somewhere where humanity can't reach in 4th density
[08:26] <fetus> i truley believe what have discovered thus far in science and nature is nothing compared to whats out there..
[08:26] <S7L> my question is simple. How does these "4th density" objects exist in the "3rd density" reality?
[08:26] <S7L> There should be *two* Earths if the realities are separate.
[08:26] <Howmo> Fetus, that is true.
[08:26] <S7L> This is what ZetaTalk tells at one end -- 4th density stuff doesn't interact with 3rd density stuff.
[08:27] <S7L> Then, it says that the Earth being shfited from 3rd to 4th density is a physical shift
[08:27] <S7L> so now, what happens to the Earth already in 4th density? Will it be sent to the scrapyard of unnecessary planets?
[08:27] <S7L> They can't be the same, yet it is required that they are the same.
[08:27] <Howmo> The "zetas" claim that THEY are going to shift the Earth to 4th.
[08:27] <fetus> s7l how can you try and explain something with such a basic knowledge of science. (even if you were the smartest scientist in the world, I would still call your knowledge basic)
[08:27] <obany> Howmo: NO
[08:27] <fetus> basic= primitive
[08:27] <obany> that's not what they claim
[08:27] <S7L> fetus: I don't ask for scientific explanation for densities.
[08:28] <S7L> What I ask for is simple consistency
[08:28] <Howmo> no what, obany?
[08:28] <obany> the Zetas don't say that they will shift the earth
[08:28] <Howmo> Then how does it happen, obany?
[08:28] <S7L> The ZetaTalk stuff falls apart in closer examination. That is my experience
[08:28] <fetus> one only has to look at the timespan of humans on this earth to know how limited out knowledge of the universe actually is
[08:29] <S7L> Nancy will not be able to fill in the gaps -- she simply gives you rehash of what ZetaTalk already says
[08:29] <obany> I am not exaclty sure how it will hapen, but that it will happen yes i am sure of that
[08:29] <Howmo> Fetus, I know what you mean, but that doesn't mean we know nothing.
[08:29] <fetus> .....................................................dinosaurs......................................................................(.) <---- humans
[08:29] <S7L> it's like "here you say this, but that doesn't make sense, can you elaborate?" Then she simply restates what ZetaTalk already says and I say "yes, um, that exactly prompted my question. The problem is the same"
[08:30] <Howmo> A good example is the current imaging where she says it is "moving".
[08:30] <Howmo> That is based on her past claims that noise specks are PX.
[08:31] <obany> !addtimedban howmo 130 /join #astromomy
[08:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +b *!*@ip-216-222-15-94.salmoninternet.com
[08:31] * Howmo was kicked by ChanServ (/join #astromomy (obany))
[08:31] <obany> so
[08:31] <obany> we where discussing something else at this time
[08:31] <S7L> fetus: it makes no difference to me. The most important thing is, in this era, humanity is finally trying to apply critical thought and logic, and we do have quite impressive scientific success, based on the fact we have a culture that mostly favours peace and thus evolves
[08:31] <S7L> these are wonderful things.
[08:32] <S7L> Even if the problem is that much of what we do falls into disuse, and that the world is being spoiled at a great rate
[08:32] <fetus> very wonderful...i just think the door is wide open...and shouldnt be shut because our science at this time cant explain it.
[08:32] <S7L> fetus: It's not like "it can't explain it"
[08:32] <S7L> it's more like "our science saw that stuff 300 years ago and knew it can't be that way and it has thus stood"
[08:32] <S7L> at least what she says about gravity and like
[08:33] * ChanServ sets mode: -b *!*@ip-216-222-15-94.salmoninternet.com
[08:33] <fetus> dont you mean...and the like :)
[08:33] <fetus> or a like
[08:33] <fetus> :)
[08:33] <S7L> hmm. I don't know actually.
[08:33] <fetus> nm..
[08:33] <S7L> I guess "the like" is proper
[08:34] <fetus> dum dee dum dee do...I wish i had some hoots today
[08:34] <S7L> Nancy claims that gravity is a mechanical pressure pushing bodies around, and that Sun has sweeping arms giving planets an extra tug from behind
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[08:34] <S7L> Unfortunately, we know instantly that any mechanical pressure theory is false because gravity can't propagate fast enough if it is based on mechancial pressure.
[08:34] <Howmo> Obany, do you know what DENIAL is?? You simply won't listen to what you don't want to hear.
[08:35] <S7L> The sweeping arms work apparently for all bodies and doesn't disturb their satellite systems? Give us a break.
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[08:35] <fetus> what if its not a mechanical based pressure
[08:35] <S7L> Nancy has tried to address her "sweeping arms of sun" explanation many times but there is no indication, none whatsoever, that this kind of force even exists, nor do I think it makes sense
[08:35] <Howmo> The sweeping arms should show up as variance in orbital velocity.
[08:36] <fetus> keep in mind i have no idea what im speaking of :)
[08:36] <S7L> Nancy would need to explain just why doesn't these sweeping arms push the moons of planetary systems apart, which operate on extremely tender balance
[08:36] <obany> because week and week out, you say the same things, like a fucking broken record
[08:36] <Howmo> I am simply repeating the truth, obany.
[08:36] <obany> you repeat the same stupid arguments over and over again
[08:36] <obany> doh
[08:36] <obany> howmo
[08:37] <Howmo> What is "stupid" about what I have said?
[08:37] <S7L> I mean, certainly Nancy can claim, but to assume it comes from Zetas who have amazing powers of explanation when they can't even give us a magnitude number for planet x that wouldn't contradict the facts... is stretching it a little
[08:37] <fetus> zeta science is one thing, but our planet rapidly changing over the last 5 years is another
[08:37] <obany> ooh come on, you are making me sick and tired .... you are so damn anoying
[08:38] <S7L> fetus: there are amazing climatic changes witnessed in the last 2000 years at least
[08:38] <S7L> sudden, abrupt mini ice ages, and whatnot
[08:38] <S7L> there is no reason to assume PLanet X is behind them
[08:38] <Howmo> Nancy's whole "look around" thing is weird...
[08:38] <obany> S7L: SO WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT TO FEEL OR SEE THEN ?
[08:38] <fetus> s7l...thats where we differ...
[08:38] <Howmo> That implies that the powerful zetas can't pinpoint the location of PX.
[08:39] <S7L> fetus: weather varies all the time. And human activity in this last century could well be one of the major contributing factors
[08:39] <obany> major earthquakes, richter 7-8 occuring at several places on the globe at the same time?
[08:39] * sleth has quit IRC (Leaving)
[08:39] <fetus> im still waiting for a 9
[08:39] <obany> causing mass destruction ?
[08:40] <S7L> Sigh. No. There isn't even any great increase of earthquakes.
[08:40] <obany> but will that say something, to you ... i ask this in a rethorical way ?
[08:40] <Howmo> Ok, obany, that is a good study. have you looked at the earthquake records?
[08:40] <S7L> obany: well, it could be interesting, that is all
[08:40] <Howmo> ?
[08:40] <S7L> but to link this to Planet X, requires a mechanism.
[08:41] <obany> interresting, ... but what if it would happen in Europe in a place not prone to earthquakes ?
[08:41] <Howmo> OK, IS that happening?
[08:41] <S7L> well, there are some earthquakes aroudn, for instance Italy
[08:41] <S7L> what do you mean by "Europe not prone to earthquakes"?
[08:42] <obany> West Eruopean countries, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden etc?
[08:42] <fetus> the drought in western canada is the worst ever recorded....as well as australia....
[08:42] <fetus> i live here...farmers are going crazy
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[08:43] <obany> <s7l> ooh, greenhouse affect,, fetus nothing more
[08:43] <obany> :P
[08:43] <Howmo> Fetus, Nancy predicted that our store shelves would be empty by now.
[08:43] <fetus> the poles are melting WAY faster then expected.
[08:43] <Howmo> Yes, there are worming indications.
[08:43] <Howmo> warming
[08:43] <Howmo> Do you see us denying that?
[08:43] <S7L> but they aren't melting so fast as to raise sea levels
[08:44] <obany> but that is because of the sun, not because of Planet X
[08:44] <obany> :P
[08:44] <obany> doh
[08:44] <S7L> at least, not more than what is it, 0.025 mm per year
[08:44] <fetus> 6 years ago i remmember hearing global warming wouldnt affect us for another 100 years....and now there saying its happing under our feet right now.
[08:44] <Howmo> I don't know who is saying that, obany.
[08:44] <obany> well then what do you say is the cause of it?
[08:44] <Howmo> I dojn't know, obany.
[08:45] <fetus> lets just wait for another "terrorist" attack to boost support for attacking iraq.
[08:45] <Howmo> It is a HUGE leap to say it is coused by PX.
[08:46] <fetus> its a logical leep for me.
[08:46] <fetus> the pieces fit for some but not for others
[08:46] <Howmo> Fetus, why would we attack Iraq if PX was coming in the spring?
[08:46] <Howmo> What would be the point?
[08:46] <fetus> its called a distraction...have you watched cnn lately?
[08:46] <S7L> fetus: you can't accuse scientists for being, in general, uncautious. To claim that for instance Earth's weather would be related to approach to Planet X is simply crank science, until you can provide for a comprehensive mechanism for how this occurs.
[08:46] <Howmo> No.
[08:47] <sleth> wag the dog
[08:47] <fetus> not a word about the crazy storms knocking out power all ver the us....just iraq iraq iraq
[08:47] <Howmo> The storms are in the news.
[08:47] <fetus> im talking cnn here
[08:47] <Howmo> How else couls we be talking about them?
[08:47] <obany> i think that s7l., also wants some calculations, drawings etc of the mechanism of the pole shift .. how it will work it
[08:48] <obany> show me the proof
[08:48] <Howmo> Show me PX in an image, obany.
[08:48] <fetus> people are talking about iraq not the weather...thats the point if px is inbound right now
[08:48] <S7L> That's because scientists are afraid of drawing incorrect conclusions, and Planet X just doesn't count for science until it is sighted independently, and since it is a celestial body it should follow the observed laws of celestial mechanics, and have a magnitude, albedo, size, etc. which could make it possible to predict its brightness.
[08:49] <fetus> s7l but if it dosent follow their laws...then everything goes to shit for them.
[08:49] <Howmo> Let me ask again: Why can't the zetas pinpoint the location of PX?
[08:49] <fetus> i need hoots!!
[08:49] <S7L> the point is, it isn't feasible to assume there is this one body in the universe which doesn't obey laws which were discovered about 400 years ago and still in use where low energy or velocity are required
[08:50] <fetus> 400 years ago...
[08:50] <fetus> hmm
[08:50] <fetus> seem a little out dated to me :)
[08:50] <S7L> the true contender is general relativity and not a single shred of experimental evidence exists indicating that it were in error with predicting even the absurd situations close to black holes. If it can handle THAT, it can handle one "brown dwarf" which is a "comet" which is a "planet"
[08:50] <obany> S7L: since you are so into sci.astro ... your friend imo has posted :P
[08:50] <Howmo> What did he say?
[08:51] <obany> well can't you acces the newsgroup yourself ...
[08:51] <Howmo> Didn't you read it?
[08:52] <Howmo> Just tell us what he said.
[08:52] <obany> Yes, ... but you can read it yourself too .. and well i was saying it to .s7l and not to you
[08:52] <obany> ooh do
[08:52] <S7L> I can't see it yet, appears not to be in groups.google.com yet. It'll make there in some hours though
[08:52] <Howmo> Did what he said make any sense to you?
[08:53] <Howmo> Yes, I get that group very late.
[08:53] <Howmo> What did he say, obany?
[08:53] <obany>  think you mean:
[08:53] <obany> USNO Star Mag:  15.1 (Blue)  13.8 (Red)
[08:53] <obany> Field: 476
[08:53] <obany> Magnitude: 14.29
[08:53] <obany> raincityAFK: 04h 22m 49.85s  Dec: +12°07'44.16"
[08:53] <obany> raincityAFK: 04h 22m 40.05s  Dec: +12°07'19.92"  (Epoch 2000)
[08:53] <obany> but this is the bright (relatively) star just above and to the right
[08:53] <obany> of the frame 3 defect chosen by Lieder as the "white" persona.  Havas
[08:53] <obany> is excited by his "red" persona which seems to be a star and which is
[08:53] <obany> not apparent in my 11 disk copy of the USNO-a2.0
[08:53] <obany> this is for you .. s7l
[08:53] <S7L> Nancy makes it sound like humanity hadn't predicted the positions of planets within the solar system to a precision such that you can run simulations for a thousand years with expeceted error margins in order of arcminutes.
[08:54] <S7L> obany: yes, it seems Havas imaged something new.
[08:54] <S7L> Now all we want to know is, what is it.
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[08:55] <Howmo> Gee, IMO seems to be HONESTLY admitting it is not in the star charts.
[08:55] <Howmo> Gee, I thought IMO was all "disinfo"....
[08:55] <S7L> yes, isn't it such a difficulty. After all, IMO is such a nasty paid debunker, or whatnot.
[08:55] <Howmo> Yes, he is a lying cheat, after all....
[08:56] <S7L> actually this must be a clever ploy to lure Nancy to trust IMO again, so that the next hit can really ruin her credibility and all the elite of NASA can then safely retreat to the bunkers
[08:56] <Howmo> Yes, THAT'S IT!!!
[08:56] <Howmo>  What a clever ploy..
[08:57] <fetus> hes' not really paid to debunk?
[08:57] <Howmo> Are you joking?
[08:57] <fetus> wait a minute
[08:57] <fetus> he is?
[08:57] <obany> fetus: or should i just say it's noise again ... ???
[08:57] <Howmo> Huh?
[08:57] <obany> what else can he say
[08:57] <fetus> is imo paid to debunk zetatlka?
[08:58] <S7L> fetus: of course not
[08:58] <Howmo> Obany, he seems to be saying it's NOT noise this time.
[08:58] <fetus> oh good....i'de be running for the hills now if that was the case :)
[08:58] <Howmo> Fetus, nancy says he IS lying.
[08:58] <S7L> Almost everyone with any understanding of astronomic pictures ignores the "white light" persona and just looks into the "red light" one because there really appears to be a new object. MC was wrong, a bit like I suspected, because he claimed it was an existing star
[08:58] <fetus> everyone is lieing
[08:59] <Howmo> Nancy says that ALL who actively counter her are paid debunkers.
[08:59] <Howmo> She has sais that I am that too.
[08:59] <Howmo> said.
[08:59] <S7L> The problem was that he claimed a magnitude of 14 for it, and it was way too faint to be mag 14, it'd easily be on the dss2.
[09:00] <S7L> but it makes sense if one of the bright stars close by were mag 14. I didn't feel like starting to lay down grid on the area because I couldn't make a shot of the area in my astronomy software of choice :-(
[09:01] <S7L> I could point the software, but when it tried to fetch a FITS image in order to render a picture on the area, it would suddenly point it about 20 arc minutes off... Dunno why
[09:01] <S7L> it's had those difficulties in the past, too :-(
[09:01] <Howmo> I only have "redshift" to play with.
[09:01] <Howmo> Not much good.
[09:02] <S7L> I suspect it happens if the area I request happens close to picture borders
[09:02] <Howmo> I suspect this is an asteroid.
[09:02] <S7L> it makes a miscalculation of the areas of interest, or something. I can't know what, I should read the source
[09:02] <S7L> it could be an asteroid. I wonder if it has moved a little during the imaging sessions
[09:02] <S7L> that could account for the elongated shape
[09:03] <Howmo> I guess they are 1 minute exposures?
[09:03] <S7L> something like it. I don't know.
[09:03] <S7L> but the telescope doesn't track too good so they can't be much longer
[09:03] <Howmo> Over what time were the images taken?
[09:03] <Howmo> Is that long enought to see movement?
[09:04] <Howmo> of an asteroid?
[09:04] <S7L> It depends on distance
[09:04] <S7L> if it's at kuiper belt, hell no
[09:04] <S7L> but if it is closer, then maybe
[09:04] <S7L> some near earth object, or something. Could be. The brightness seems to vary a little also from picture to picture
[09:04] <Howmo> It will be interesting to see what happens now.
[09:04] <S7L> that could correspond to spinning object, or random atmospheric variations
[09:04] <fetus> isnt the kuiper belt not a proven theory?
[09:05] <fetus> just curious
[09:05] <S7L> fetus: well, no, it's observed. You think maybe of the "Oort cloud"?
[09:05] <fetus> ya thats it
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[09:05] <Howmo> Gee, fetus, you already think that none of our theories are "proven".
[09:05] <S7L> We have tracked, what was it, 2000 asteroids that belong to the kuiper belt, which is an asteroid belt somewhat outside Pluto. I don't remember the specifics
[09:06] <S7L> but it certainly is an observation. The Oort cloud is a bit like hypothesis, although it does have some merits. But it's too far away for direct observations.
[09:06] <fetus> howmo..what?
[09:06] <S7L> the theory of solar system formation, last time I heard about it, supports formation of that kind of asteroid belts... were they supposed to contain icy things or something else, well, I don't remember
[09:07] <Howmo> Fetus, you doubt all of our science, right?
[09:07] <Howmo> It's all "outdated"?
[09:08] <Howmo> You don't believe anything we have "proven"?
[09:08] <fetus> yes...1000 years from now...things will be different, thats what i beleive.
[09:08] <fetus> something that is rock solid today...will have the ground pulled out from benith it at some point.
[09:09] <Howmo> Why do you ask whether we have "proven" something when you don't believe we know anything anyway?
[09:09] <fetus> i guess thats why im an artists and not a scientist :)
[09:09] <Howmo> Not EVERYTHING, fetus.
[09:09] <fetus> howmo your getting me on words there...pretty lame.
[09:10] <Howmo> No, it is on your questioning ov VERY solid science that you doubt.
[09:10] <fetus> and it wasn't "something" it was the specificly the kuiper belt.
[09:10] <Howmo> As if the zeta PX could exist and violate ALL of our understandings.
[09:11] <S7L> fetus: you ignore one fact
[09:11] <Howmo> You said "is that proven"?
[09:11] <fetus> uh oh
[09:11] <S7L> the science as it advances, it doesn't destroy old. It embraces and extends the old.
[09:11] <Howmo> ... but you feel we can't "prove" anything..
[09:11] <S7L> It's like today's scientists still use Newton because we know he's applicable in the low-energy low-velocity limit
[09:11] <fetus> thats a bad thing s7l...what if things need to be dismised before we can advance..
[09:11] <S7L> only when you need high energies or high velocities, you need either special relativity or general relativity
[09:12] <S7L> Newton is not "wrong", or "disproved", just extended as new observational data came available
[09:12] <Howmo> That's how science WORKS, fetus.
[09:12] <S7L> fetus: that's not likely at all. Firstly, new theory must explain the same things
[09:12] <S7L> so the new theory must be pretty similar to the old one
[09:12] <Howmo> It looks for ways to improve it's explanations.
[09:13] <S7L> there's nothing to "dismiss". You can't throw away any of the facts which you have already established. The new theories must be as capable of the old ones, in fact of experimental evidence
[09:13] <Howmo> The whole "Earth is flat" story is vastly overrated.
[09:13] <S7L> besides, "Earth is flat" is a great theory in a small local area
[09:13] <S7L> because locally, Earth *is* flat, for all practical purposes.
[09:13] <Howmo> That was superceeded WAAAAY before people think it was.
[09:14] <fetus> changing it up a bit....so what if there are still 200 periodic elements that are not yet discovered.....
[09:15] <S7L> It was known for ages that Earth is round, indeed. All marine civilizations probably figured out that the masts of ships disappeared last in the horizon
[09:15] <S7L> fetus: there probably are many periodic elements not synthesized yet
[09:16] <S7L> but you can't say they weren't "discovered". In general, as long as you talk about elements made out of protons, neutrons and electrons, practically all the stable ones exist in nature. Only the very heaviest never get born. But there is evidence to suggest that they are not stable, they're radioactive and break apart.
[09:16] <sleth> s7l do the zetas speak on radioactive elements
[09:16] <S7L> So what even if you synthesize them? They're likely to be unremarkable, difficult beasts, almost impossible to create in any significant quantities and prone to break down
[09:17] <S7L> their practical uses are about as close to zero as you can get, simply because it's impossible to get them.
[09:17] <S7L> sleth: I dunno
[09:17] <S7L> To state that there are new elements not yet discovered is like stating that there are undiscovered numbers between 1 and 106.
[09:18] <Howmo> I will ask once again.. Obany, andbody who believes the zetas....
[09:18] <fetus> is there no way there could be 200 natural undiscovered elements?
[09:18] <S7L> yes, here I keep on assuming they're formed of protons, neutrons and electrons.
[09:18] <Howmo>  Why can't they pinpoint the location of PX??
[09:18] <S7L> Of course, there could be new fancy stuff we never knew abuot, but 100 years of particle accelerator experience does not leave reason to think that really is the case.
[09:19] <S7L> fetus: not on Earth, no. If they existed, humanity would have found them.
[09:19] <fetus> i see....i've always been curious about that
[09:19] <obany> !addtimedban howmo 180 yes yes i know by know bye cu in 3 minuts
[09:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +b *!*@ip-216-222-15-94.salmoninternet.com
[09:19] * Howmo was kicked by ChanServ (yes yes i know by know bye cu in 3 minuts (obany))
[09:19] <fetus> yes, not on earth..
[09:19] <fetus> agreed
[09:19] <S7L> but the light coming from nebulae and distant stars suggest their elements are the same
[09:20] <S7L> they carry same, distinct absorption and emission lines
[09:20] <fetus> im gonna through my glass pipe on the stove :)\
[09:20] <S7L> this seems to be the situation as far as humanity's eye has yet been able to see
[09:21] <fetus> why are the hubble pictures so classified....they must have taken thousands if not tens of thousands of photos by now.....or can i go somewhere to view new hubble pictures?
[09:21] <S7L> The way how the material of Earth came about is cosmic supernova explosion. All the material in Earth has come from what those stellar machines can generate and blow into space.
[09:21] <S7L> fetus: I suppose there's at least issue of funding
[09:21] <S7L> science is competitive and those who pay for telescope time get the rights to the pictures, as far as I know
[09:22] <fetus> haha...300 billion a year on the military.
[09:22] * ChanServ sets mode: -b *!*@ip-216-222-15-94.salmoninternet.com
[09:22] <S7L> in general, the pictures made of stellar objects are not so pretty or even interesting as those which get released to public
[09:22] <fetus> but why arnt the pictures in a gallery somewhere?
[09:22] <S7L> they are coloured artificially and filtered to appear pretty to promote mainstream interest
[09:23] <fetus> i keep seeing the same 10 pictures from the hubble
[09:23] <S7L> fetus: those who are principal investigators might have no interest in releasing the data. Could be that people weren't even interested. I don't actually know the full story behind this image ownership and like, but I expect 99.9 % of all pictures Hubble takes are extremely uninteresting to an average layman
[09:24] <S7L> they are black-and-white, and do not look at stuff that looks spectacular like nebulae and distant galaxies, except occasionally. Hubble is used primarily because it can see far. It's the farthest-reaching eye humanity has in space, I think.
[09:25] <fetus> for some reason i doubt that...just a feeling...maybe becasue i would be interested in any pictures from space.
[09:25] <S7L> and I believe cosmological research is the primary bread and butter
[09:25] <S7L> you observe distant galaxies for supernovae of certain type to discover distances to those galaxies, and so on.
[09:26] <S7L> me too. I guess I'd love to have more pictures from Hubble in general. The NASA websites don't have all that much and the image quality is poor compared to Hubble's real capabilitieis
[09:26] <S7L> except occasionally
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[09:28] <sleth> s7l in march 2003 px will be visible to the naked eye, but in what direction
[09:28] * S7L does not know what Nancy has against this hubble thing, nancy keeps on talking about it like it should mean something
[09:28] <S7L> sleth: well, it'd be about to the direction of the setting sun
[09:28] <S7L> some 30 degrees off
[09:28] <S7L> don't ask me where exactly.
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[09:29] <Howmo> What did I miss?
[09:29] <S7L> Howmo: discussion about this "Hubble secrecy" in general
[09:29] <sleth> thanxs
[09:29] <S7L> I don't know why Nancy has such a sore spot for it
[09:29] <Howmo> Oh, heah.. that...
[09:29] <S7L> She used to repeat in 1997 endlessly how Hubble never takes pictures of Hale-Bopp.
[09:29] <S7L> or was that 1996
[09:30] <S7L> I haven't found where this thing got started
[09:30] <Howmo> it is an interesting idea.. but where is the 11th+ magnitude PX? we don't need Hubble.
[09:30] <S7L> Well, you're guessing a little. Fetus said that he'd like to see more pictures taken with Hubble, and frankly I quite agree
[09:31] <S7L> althuogh I've seen some that took even Hubble something like 2 days to take
[09:31] <Howmo> So would I, but we don't need Hubble to see PX.
[09:31] <S7L> it was recording very faraway white dwarves at some constellation
[09:31] <fetus> long exposer times or ?
[09:31] <S7L> yes. In this case, the Hubble was observing objects of magnitude of about 30
[09:32] <S7L> from Earth, you can hardly see magnitude 21 or 22 at all, because there will be too much light scattered your way
[09:32] <Howmo> Yes, and that is about the mag of the "smudges" Nancy says are the "tail".
[09:33] <Howmo> Thousands of time dimmer than she said PX would be.
[09:33] <S7L> no matter how long you stare, all you will get will be the sky noise. The fact Hubble can see something like magnitude 30 objects is truely amazing. The amount of light is so small, only one hundred thousandth of that which is already too weak to be detected on Earth even in ideal conditions basically
[09:33] <fetus> they just made a big fuss about getting it up there and fixing it...then what do we see?...in the major mdia, nothing.
[09:33] <S7L> fetus: well, Hubble is a very serious research thing. If you were an astronomer, perhaps you saw more pictures taken with hubble.
[09:34] <S7L> Hubble just isn't used to take pretty pictures of nebulae that the press wants except occasionally.
[09:34] <Howmo> The public doesn't care much for astronomy and the news is driven by popularity.
[09:34] <fetus> perhapes...but most people on earth arnt astronomers...do we have less a righ to see images, even if they are "boring"
[09:34] <S7L> althuogh those pictures are very professionally processed and have beautiful (artificial) colour
[09:35] <S7L> fetus: and besides, if you want pictures, there are abundant Earth-based scopes to use. It's not like Hubble was unique, it's just able to see really faint stuff
[09:35] <S7L> and it has extremely great resolution, too... Still, there are some ground-based telescope arrays that put even Hubble to shame in this regard
[09:36] <Howmo> What was funny was Mark Hazelwood claiming that Hubble say PX when nancy's coords were in the Sun.
[09:36] <Howmo> Hubbel saw PX.
[09:37] <S7L> hehe.
[09:37] <S7L> They wouldn't even point the scope that way no matter how much begging
[09:37] <fetus> well if px is inbound you can bet all your dollars hubble is glued to it.
[09:38] <Howmo> Fetus, I gave nancy the benefit of the doubt until the January images.
[09:38] <Howmo> Then all doubt was gone.
[09:38] <fetus> good plan...have you heard anything about thie mcanny fellow....claiming its coming from the opposite direction..
[09:38] <fetus> james mccanney
[09:39] <Howmo> No, but I have a couple of radio shows to listen to tht include him, I think.
[09:39] <fetus> interesting stuff
[09:39] <Howmo> They were proadcast during the last month.
[09:40] <Howmo> Alex Merclinger and one other...
[09:40] <Howmo> It is with that "samsara" guy.
[09:40] <Howmo> I just found his site.
[09:40] <fetus> link?
[09:40] <Howmo> Yes, the truth is, that PX is NOT going away after next May...
[09:41] <Howmo> It will live on and on....
[09:41] * S7L thinks the Samsara site was so amazing that I had to mirror it
[09:41] <Howmo> I'll get the link...
[09:41] <fetus> until it shows up in 2012?
[09:41] <fetus> :)
[09:41] <Howmo> brb
[09:41] <S7L> if the pole shift doesn't happen by 2003, it'll be lost
[09:42] <Howmo> One of the radio shows: http://www.lougentile.com/guestschedule.html
[09:42] <fetus> i'd really like to see a discovery channel special about px...wonder why that hasnt happened yet...it sure is a buzzing internet topic...or maybe the sci-fi channel..
[09:43] <Howmo> samsara: http://home.earthlink.net/%7Esamsara2003/main-page.htm
[09:43] <Howmo> Nancy has been pushing PX strongly for 7 years now.
[09:43] <S7L> this bible stuff together with quotes about aliens is just so ... classic
[09:44] <Howmo> That has permeated the internet by now.
[09:44] <fetus> can i listen to that radio show?
[09:44] <S7L> oh damn, he's changed it already
[09:44] <Howmo> Yeah, that show is archived.
[09:45] <Howmo> WMP
[09:45] <Howmo> I think I'll crank it up now too.
[09:46] <S7L> God, Samsara has been at it on this website
[09:46] <S7L> I liked this man's writings: http://www.around.com/abduct.html
[09:47] <Howmo> Actually, that other radio show was from earlier in the month.
[09:47] * cmel has joined #Troubled_Times
[09:47] <cmel> hello
[09:47] <Howmo> It would be good to listen to it first. Link follows.
[09:49] <fetus> cant seem to find the link to listen to the nov 25 show
[09:50] <cmel> fetus what show art bell ?
[09:51] <Howmo> Hmmm, can't find it, though I have the player up on the screen.
[09:51] <Howmo> It is from the "Alex Merklinger" show.
[09:51] <cmel> oh ok
[09:51] <Howmo> Oh...'
[09:51] <fetus> i was looking at lou gentiles site
[09:52] <Howmo>  The show is called "mysteries of the mind".
[09:52] <cmel> yes
[09:52] <Howmo> I think that both have recent PX shows.
[09:52] * sleth has quit IRC (Leaving)
[09:52] <cmel> I'm asking because I have art bell from 25nov
[09:52] <Howmo> In November.
[09:52] <fetus> yes...2 callers mention px on the friday art bell show...its topic was bigfoot
[09:53] <Howmo> That is Nancy, right?
[09:53] <cmel> yes
[09:53] <Howmo> You have the file?
[09:53] <cmel> well files
[09:53] <Howmo> How big?
[09:53] <cmel> 4 20meg files
[09:53] <cmel> mp3
[09:53] <Howmo> Yikes.
[09:53] <Howmo>  Is it on the net anywhere?
[09:54] <cmel> it's on usenet
[09:54] <fetus> is there anyway to save streaming media?
[09:54] <Howmo> Oh screw it, I don't want to listen to Nancy repeat her crapola anyway.
[09:54] <cmel> alt.binary.radio.misc i think
[09:54] <S7L> 'Anyway, all this scientific, methodological criticism rolls off believers like water off a duck. It's merely "rational" or "empirical" or, worst of all, "Western"'
[09:54] <cmel> there not much new anyway :)
[09:55] <Howmo> I heard the first part of the Bell show...
[09:55] <Howmo> She started in on: We are imaging it with amatuer equipment"..
[09:55] <cmel> but the show with bob lazar was ok
[09:55] <cmel> heh
[09:55] <Howmo> Yes, I have always dug Lazar.
[09:56] <Howmo> I heard him when he first came out.
[09:56] <Howmo> On the "Billy Goodman Happening"... show.
[09:56] <cmel> ok
[09:56] <Howmo> KVEG Las Vegas...
[09:56] <Howmo> 1988
[09:56] <cmel> damn
[09:57] <Howmo> Winter of 88-89
[09:57] <cmel> I wasn't even thinking along these lines back then :)
[09:57] <Howmo> Billy Goodman was the "art Bell" of that time.
[09:57] <cmel> ok :)
[09:57] <Howmo> Oh, I have been following this stuff since about 1985.
[09:57] <cmel> I started about 95
[09:58] <Howmo> The early guys were Bill Cooper...
[09:58] <Howmo> Stan Friedman...
[09:58] <Howmo> Bill lear....
[09:58] <cmel> stan friedman thats a name I know
[09:58] <Howmo> Lear has dropped out and Cooper is dead.
[09:58] <cmel> and bill lear
[09:59] <Howmo> Lear was with Lazar, I think.
[09:59] <Howmo> Or was that ummm......
[09:59] <cmel> ok
[09:59] * yggdrasil has joined #Troubled_Times
[09:59] * ShadowCow has quit IRC (Ping timeout for ShadowCow[216.127.150.109])
[09:59] <Howmo> The TV guy who did those early exposes'
[09:59] <Howmo> I forget.
[09:59] <cmel> hi yggdrasil where in scandinavia do you come from ?
[09:59] <Howmo> There was an early TV guy in Las Vegas...
[10:00] <Howmo> Lazar took him to witness the tests..
[10:00] <cmel> ok
[10:00] <yggdrasil> can somone tell me how often the px comes?
[10:00] <Howmo> Never.
[10:00] <cmel> heh
[10:01] <yggdrasil> hha
[10:01] <cmel> we will see this spring :)
[10:02] <Howmo> I don't know what could come from out of telescope range by then.
[10:02] <cmel> me neither, but I'm keeping my options open
[10:02] <Howmo> Nancy seems to have a following in Scandanavia.
[10:02] <cmel> yes
[10:03] <cmel> although not that big
[10:03] <Howmo> Well, it's time to bug out, cmel. Can't wait till spring.
[10:03] <Howmo> Very few people are able to walk into the woods and survive.
[10:03] <cmel> well I'll wait, because I have yet to see undeniable proof
[10:04] <Howmo> That won't happen.
[10:04] <cmel> then it wont matter
[10:04] <Howmo> Don't you know that PX will be in the Sun in the spring?
[10:04] <cmel> heh
[10:04] <cmel> no
[10:04] <Howmo> Are you going to go out qand stare into the Sun?
[10:04] <cmel> no
[10:05] <Howmo> Then how will you see it?
[10:05] <cmel> I'll let other do the work, and then if they spot something, then I'll go out and look
[10:05] <cmel> others
[10:05] <Howmo> Others HAVE done the work by imaging.
[10:06] <Howmo> There is nothibg there.
[10:06] <cmel> yes well I see nothing but spots, that could be anything from noise to little objects whizzing by
[10:06] <Howmo> It is weird that people believe nancy but think she may be wrong about the date.
[10:07] <cmel> I'm holding her up on the date
[10:07] <Howmo> So, you dojn't want to accept the analysis of the astronomers?
[10:07] <yggdrasil> what the analysys of astroners
[10:07] <cmel> not that I don't think were wasting this planet
[10:08] <cmel> what astronomers ?
[10:08] <Howmo> You haven't seen the work showing nothing but noise?
[10:08] <yggdrasil> where
[10:08] <Howmo> brb
[10:08] <cmel> I have seen pics showing something
[10:08] <cmel> but what ?
[10:08] <Howmo> http://de.geocities.com/otto_zork/zetaNoise.html    
[10:08] <cmel> theres alot of lying ppl out there
[10:09] <Howmo> http://us.geocities.com/openmindxx/
[10:09] <Howmo> They explain their work.
[10:09] <Howmo> They don't just expect you to believe, like Nancy.
[10:09] <yggdrasil> well its a planet not a star first of all
[10:10] <yggdrasil> im sceptical myself
[10:10] <yggdrasil> but
[10:10] <yggdrasil> what if huh?
[10:10] <cmel> howmo well know in late march when there is a noshow of px :)
[10:10] <Howmo> Well, Nancy pointed to dim stars in January.
[10:10] <Howmo> And called it PX.
[10:10] <cmel> yes I remember
[10:11] <Howmo> That's too late to prepare, cmel.
[10:11] <Howmo> And again, are you going to stare into the Sun in late March?
[10:11] <cmel> I don't care, in any case I may just stay behind to help ppl
[10:11] <yggdrasil> shades
[10:12] <cmel> no
[10:12] <Howmo> People WILL be saying "it's there", cmel.
[10:12] <cmel> haha
[10:12] <Howmo> Nancy WILL be saying it's there.
[10:13] <cmel> yes but her voice will be ALONE
[10:13] <Howmo> Nancy will be saying the EArth has stoped rotating.
[10:13] <cmel> nah
[10:13] <Howmo> People will believe her.
[10:13] <cmel> she will fade into oblivion
[10:13] <Howmo> That should have happened after Hale-Bopp.
[10:13] <cmel> heh
[10:13] <yggdrasil> what did she say about hale bop?
[10:14] <Howmo> That it didn't exist.
[10:14] <cmel> lets just sit on the spectator seats and be amused :)
[10:14] <Howmo>  I feel for the people who are just coming on to this and getting scared.
[10:15] <Howmo> They deserve to know the other side.
[10:15] <cmel> well maybe it's the thing that can set their priorities straight
[10:15] <Howmo> You can't make a choice based only on Nancy's side.
[10:15] * ShadowCow has joined #Troubled_Times
[10:15] <cmel> hi SC
[10:15] * ShadowCow waves
[10:16] <yggdrasil> i dont know what to think any more
[10:16] <Howmo> If you just read nancy's side it seems that it might be true.
[10:16] * jimben has joined #Troubled_Times
[10:16] <cmel> I know one thing and that is I hate the current US administration
[10:16] <Howmo> I finally went to read sci.astro for myself and it showed a different view.
[10:16] <ShadowCow> Everyone does.
[10:17] <Howmo> They explain how nancy is wrong.
[10:17] <cmel> no, some americans dont
[10:17] <ShadowCow> Hell, the ultra right in the US is worried about them.
[10:17] <yggdrasil> i kinda wish the world would end and im sure theres other peepers that feel the same
[10:17] <cmel> I went to sci.astro myself 6 months ago
[10:17] <cmel> ...damn
[10:17] <Howmo> No, I know for a fact that people believe that sci.astro is full of paid debunkers and won't read it.
[10:18] <Howmo> Why, ygg?
[10:18] <cmel> I hear you Yggdrasil
[10:18] <cmel> to clear the world of any ailments
[10:18] <cmel> I guess ygg
[10:18] <Howmo> You want everyone to die because you are not happy?
[10:19] <cmel> no but if it's unevitable :(
[10:19] <Howmo> Why would that be?
[10:19] <cmel> the spelling is wrong
[10:19] <cmel> if NancyLieder is right
[10:20] <Howmo> She is wrong.
[10:20] <cmel> I hope so
[10:20] <Howmo> She is lyingl
[10:20] <Howmo> I figured that out in January.
[10:20] <obany> !addtimedban howmo 360 yes yes i know by know bye cu in 3 minuts
[10:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +b *!*@ip-216-222-15-94.salmoninternet.com
[10:20] * Howmo was kicked by ChanServ (yes yes i know by know bye cu in 3 minuts (obany))
[10:21] <obany> woops 6
[10:21] <cmel> no I think she believes what she says, so shes not lying, shes just not telling something true
[10:22] <S7L> Or then she can't face the possibility that the voices might be incorrect
[10:22] <cmel> perhaps
[10:22] <S7L> this is also consistent with her behaviour, she does succeed explaining away even that which seems to contradict an earlier position
[10:22] * obany sets mode: -b *!*@ip-216-222-15-94.salmoninternet.com
[10:23] <cmel> yes, that has happened :(
[10:26] <cmel> Yggdrasil what kind of tree are you ? oak ?
[10:28] <yggdrasil> ash
[10:28] <cmel> ahh nice sort of tree
[10:28] <cmel> :)
[10:28] <yggdrasil> good for sauna
[10:28] <cmel> hehe
[10:29] <cmel> so when you go to the branchcutters you deliver wood for 5 saunas ??
[10:30] <cmel> :)
[10:30] <yggdrasil> heh
[10:30] <yggdrasil> no um
[10:30] <yggdrasil> the vichta
[10:30] <yggdrasil> i was referring too
[10:30] <cmel> I heard you were the tree of life
[10:31] <yggdrasil> yes
[10:31] <yggdrasil> i try to  be
[10:31] <cmel> and BIG
[10:31] <yggdrasil> hehe
[10:31] <cmel> in fact the biggest
[10:31] <yggdrasil> my beuatifull women left me and ive been feelign not soo great lately
[10:31] <yggdrasil> actualy im more behind the
[10:32] <yggdrasil> um
[10:32] <cmel> oh I'm sorry :(
[10:32] <yggdrasil> odin hung from this tree and he saw the runes
[10:32] <yggdrasil> after 7 days
[10:32] <yggdrasil> the birth of written language
[10:32] <cmel> ahh good ol' Odin
[10:32] <yggdrasil> yea
[10:33] <yggdrasil> im planning on ordering a
[10:33] * BC has joined #Troubled_Times
[10:33] <yggdrasil> tent sauna for when this happens
[10:33] <cmel> (damn I'm rusty when it comes to folklore :(   )
[10:33] <yggdrasil> hmmm yea
[10:33] <yggdrasil> well
[10:33] <cmel> yes
[10:33] <yggdrasil> its not
[10:33] <cmel> hi BC
[10:34] <BC> hey cmel...
[10:34] <yggdrasil> it takes a lot of reading
[10:34] <BC> how are you?
[10:34] <yggdrasil> and paying attention
[10:34] <cmel> how was yesterday ?
[10:34] <BC> nothing new...
[10:34] <cmel> yes Ygg
[10:34] <cmel> damn
[10:34] <cmel> bc
[10:34] <BC> i have my checkbook out now.. sending nancy $$$
[10:34] <cmel> yeah right :)
[10:35] <cmel> lol
[10:35] <BC> she need her meds...:)
[10:35] <yggdrasil> hmmm
[10:35] <BC> there is debate on the new images...
[10:36] <cmel> yes ygg, I know, but it has been some years since I last paid attention :(
[10:36] <yggdrasil> where do you live cmel
[10:36] * jimben has quit IRC (www.thecoremovie.com)
[10:36] <cmel> and
[10:36] <cmel> copenhagen
[10:36] <cmel> what about you ygg ?
[10:36] <yggdrasil> new mexico
[10:36] <cmel> really ????
[10:37] <obany> !addtimedban BC 120 not funny
[10:37] * ChanServ sets mode: +b *!*@AC842181.ipt.aol.com
[10:37] * BC was kicked by ChanServ (not funny (obany))
[10:37] <yggdrasil> yes
[10:38] <cmel> why are you called liar@............ ?
[10:38] <cmel> yggdrasil is liar@sdn-ap-009caburbP0457.dialsprint.net * yggdrasil
[10:38] <cmel> hehe
[10:39] <yggdrasil> uhm
[10:39] <yggdrasil> hehe
[10:39] <yggdrasil> i call other people a liar quite a bit
[10:39] <cmel> hhhmm
[10:39] <cmel> oh ok that qualifies as an answer :)
[10:39] <yggdrasil> it get them going
[10:39] * ChanServ sets mode: -b *!*@AC842181.ipt.aol.com
[10:39] <yggdrasil> and makes for a good conversation starter
[10:39] <cmel> haha
[10:40] <yggdrasil> can i sleep on your couch when i go to europe ?
[10:40] <yggdrasil> im gonna hitchike
[10:40] * raincityAFK is now known as raincity
[10:40] <cmel> sure, it's only 135 cm
[10:40] <cmel> hey rain
[10:40] <yggdrasil> your couch is ?
[10:40] <yggdrasil> haha
[10:40] <yggdrasil> ill take the floor
[10:41] <cmel> take your pick
[10:41] <yggdrasil> are you here alot ?
[10:41] <cmel> yes
[10:41] <yggdrasil> cool
[10:41] <cmel> only not this weekend
[10:41] <yggdrasil> are you a girl or boy ?
[10:41] <cmel> boy
[10:41] <yggdrasil> yea i gotta get running too
[10:41] <yggdrasil> cool
[10:41] <cmel> hehe
[10:41] <yggdrasil> me 2
[10:41] <cmel> I figured
[10:43] <cmel> so are you new to this chat ??? , I don't remember that nick :)
[10:43] <yggdrasil> yea i just got here yesterday
[10:43] <cmel> was it fun ?
[10:43] <yggdrasil> i was worried at first but now i dont know what to think
[10:43] <yggdrasil> um
[10:43] <yggdrasil> i didnt know there was a qa session
[10:43] <yggdrasil> i wasnt impressed
[10:43] <cmel> did you ask any qøs
[10:44] <cmel> q's
[10:44] <yggdrasil> nah i just red
[10:44] <cmel> mostly I'm passive too
[10:44] <yggdrasil> well
[10:44] <cmel> are you comming back next week ?
[10:44] <yggdrasil> i did have a few questions as to um
[10:45] <yggdrasil> preparedness but i asked too late
[10:45] <cmel> you can send them via email
[10:45] <yggdrasil> yea
[10:45] <yggdrasil> hmm
[10:45] <cmel> it's on zetatalk.com
[10:45] <yggdrasil> i was just wondering about sauna
[10:45] <yggdrasil> hahah
[10:45] <cmel> hahaha
[10:46] <cmel> have you been in a sauna ??
[10:46] <cmel> ever
[10:46] <yggdrasil> i went to finland
[10:46] <yggdrasil> a year ago
[10:47] <cmel> what did you think ?
[10:47] <yggdrasil> i miss my girlfriend
[10:47] <cmel> haha
[10:47] <yggdrasil> well actualy it seemed a little
[10:47] <yggdrasil> skinheadish
[10:47] <yggdrasil> that kinda i didnt like
[10:47] <yggdrasil> but i liked it
[10:47] <cmel> well it's comes with roling in the snow naked
[10:48] <yggdrasil> hmmm
[10:48] <yggdrasil> i want to go back to get a new girlfriend
[10:48] <cmel> the get the circulation going
[10:48] <yggdrasil> well i found a tent sauna
[10:48] <cmel> you should :)
[10:48] <yggdrasil> i was gonna try to make one but
[10:48] <yggdrasil> i rent a house
[10:48] <yggdrasil> so i found a tent sauna
[10:48] <yggdrasil> the shipping is
[10:48] <yggdrasil> crazy
[10:49] <yggdrasil> theres a spa here in the mountains
[10:49] <cmel> what ?
[10:49] <yggdrasil> its pretty nice
[10:49] <yggdrasil> i go there quite a bit
[10:49] <yggdrasil> darn i gotta run
[10:49] <yggdrasil> have a trip to colorado springs
[10:49] <cmel> goto an outdoors spa in winter with snow all around is good too
[10:50] <raincity> www.msnbc.com/news/844623.asp?
[10:50] <cmel> ok later yggdrasil
[10:50] <yggdrasil> my girlfriends sauuna was
[10:50] <raincity> check it out...Cheney is having a bunker built under his residence now.
[10:50] <yggdrasil> next to a lake
[10:50] <yggdrasil> ok by cmel
[10:50] <cmel> bye
[10:50] * yggdrasil has quit IRC (Read error to yggdrasil[sdn-ap-009caburbP0457.dialsprint.net]: Connection reset by peer)
[10:51] <cmel> checking ....
[10:51] * fetus has quit IRC
[10:51] <raincity> The blasting will last eight more months...if we have that long.
[10:52] <cmel> hhhmmm
[10:52] <ShadowCow> And the best part is that a significant rise in sea level will drown him.
[10:52] <raincity> could happen.
[10:52] <cmel> hehe
[10:53] <cmel> yes
[10:55] <ShadowCow> So if Cheney's bunker blasting knocks a bunch of mirrors off the wall, does his bad luck compound linear or exponentially?
[10:56] <cmel> well if it was exponentially we'd see a big time disaster soon :)
[10:56] <ShadowCow> Indeed.
[10:57] <cmel> linear : it's just going to creep in and nobody is going to notice enough :(
[10:57] <ShadowCow> The geology of that area is...amusing.  Wonder how deep they are going, because I thought Embassy row was on the tidal elevations.
[10:57] <cmel> hehe
[10:57] <raincity> well, 8 months more blasting must be pretty damned deep.
[10:57] <cmel> yep
[10:58] <raincity> They'll be pumping out plenty of water as they dig down.
[10:58] <ShadowCow> Hope it has a sub port.
[10:58] <cmel> into the sewers the water goes
[10:58] <raincity> Perhaps there will be an underground tunnel to the Pentagon or such.
[10:59] <ShadowCow> It would have to go under the tidal Potomac.
[10:59] <cmel> aint guessing nice, you can imagine anything and it might be true :)
[11:00] <raincity> They might be connecting it to pre-existing tunnel network.
[11:00] <cmel> yes :)
[11:01] <cmel> that could be it (not kidding)
[11:02] * _-_ has joined #Troubled_Times
[11:02] <cmel> hi *_-_
[11:02] <ShadowCow> A comfortable rise of 25' would do the job.  
[11:02] * _-_ is now known as PoleShifterr
[11:02] <PoleShifterr> hi
[11:02] <z> niihau, PoleShifterr
[11:02] <raincity> I don't know which is scarier, the poleshift scenario or the fact that the US government feels it needs to go into bunkers even without a shift.
[11:03] <PoleShifterr> did you guys saw the latests pics ?
[11:03] <raincity> yes.
[11:03] <PoleShifterr> http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/zeta4.htm
[11:03] <ShadowCow> The US government knows that DC is a target of epic proportions
[11:03] <PoleShifterr> http://www.zetatalk.com/teams/rogue/nancy3.htm
[11:03] <cmel> no
[11:03] <PoleShifterr> very interesting
[11:03] * cmel is now known as cmelAFK
[11:03] <raincity> ShadowCow: yeah because we seem to be making more enemies every day.
[11:04] * ShadowCow really does need to get her move over with.
[11:04] <raincity> I noticed that the spot in the pic is elongated...
[11:04] <PoleShifterr> elongated?
[11:05] <cmelAFK> movement
[11:05] <raincity> not round as you typically expect but slightly oval or stretched in appearance.
[11:05] <PoleShifterr> yeah i dont know why..
[11:05] <PoleShifterr> whats sure is that the spot is huge now..
[11:05] <PoleShifterr> it cant be a "pixel" defect
[11:06] <raincity> No, it's too big.
[11:06] <S7L> IMO and rest have also admitted that this object is not on star charts.
[11:06] <cmelAFK> I'll look at it later, in about an hour :)
[11:06] <cmelAFK> late
[11:06] <cmelAFK> r
[11:06] <PoleShifterr> s7l; oh yeah..
[11:06] <S7L> We don't know what it is yet. It is possible it's Planet X, asteroid, a variable star, or something else.
[11:06] <raincity> It will still take another series of pics to confirm that this is really there.
[11:07] <PoleShifterr> did nancy talked about it yesterday in her session?
[11:07] <raincity> pics which are preferably taken by someone else this time.
[11:07] <raincity> for credibility sake.
[11:07] <PoleShifterr> you dont trust havas?
[11:07] <S7L> It's not abuot trust
[11:07] <S7L> to have credible pictures, an independent confirmation is required.
[11:07] <raincity> I neither trust or distrust him.
[11:07] <S7L> More like standard procedure.
[11:07] <raincity> right.
[11:07] <PoleShifterr> yeah
[11:08] <PoleShifterr> true
[11:08] <PoleShifterr> what are the next date coords?
[11:08] <S7L> but don't be too sad if this object doesn't move according to the predicted coordinates.
[11:08] <raincity> we should be glad, not sad.
[11:08] * QueenVee has joined #Troubled_Times
[11:08] <PoleShifterr> :)
[11:08] <PoleShifterr> oh no
[11:22] <QueenVee> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24386-2002Dec7.html
[11:25] <raincity> right, we were just talking about that.
[11:25] <raincity> I saw it on msnbc.
[11:25] <QueenVee> "please understand we are severely constrained by operation requirements to perform this project on a highly accelerated schedule; therefore, it will not be possible to limit construction activities to the daytime as you request."
[11:26] <raincity> They may be connecting the naval observatory with the pre-existing tunnel network.
[11:26] <QueenVee> whatever it's for, they sure need to do it in a hurry
[11:26] <raincity> Right, they are in a big hurry.  Scary anyway you look at it.
[11:27] <QueenVee> yep
[11:27] <raincity> Only positive aspect to it --at least it's keeping some workers employed.
[11:28] <raincity> Construction companies get fat and rich building government bunkers.
[11:28] <QueenVee> i think these guys are so deluded that they might be planning to sit out PX right in the middle of washington; then emerge from their shelters and just pick up where they left off, stepping over bodies on their way to the White House....
[11:28] <raincity> It's possible.  There are many of them who are likely to afraid to leave their seat of power.
[11:28] <raincity> No matter what.
[11:28] <QueenVee> exactly
[11:29] <raincity> If they can't rule, they have no reason to live.
[11:29] <QueenVee> yes, these are people obssessed with power
[11:30] <raincity> And, you know that the contractors building this stuff will tell them that it will survive anything.
[11:30] <QueenVee> this is a good question for next Saturday's zetatalk
[11:30] <raincity> to make a sale.
[11:30] <QueenVee> oh yes, and no expense is being spared
[11:30] <raincity> "Pole shift?  Tidal waves?  No problem, Mr. Vice President...we'll install these new pumping stations..."
[11:31] * PoleShifterr has quit IRC (everytime you drop the the bomb you kill the god your child has born)
[11:31] <QueenVee> you'll be snug as bug in a rug
[11:32] <raincity> Even without the pole-shift scenario it is an ominous sign of things to come.
[11:33] <QueenVee> yep, they're expecting something and they're expecting if very soon
[11:33] <raincity> CIA might have convinced them that the suitcase nukes are in play.  Or something along those lines.
[11:34] <QueenVee> who knows....
[11:34] * PoleSHifter is now known as {-_-}
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[12:03] <cmel> later guys :)
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[12:30] <sundar> How many people believe that US Military generals force president to invade iraq (those from rumsfeld who had earlier supplied arms to iraq)?
[12:31] <ShadowCow> The US military supposedly doesn't want this war, because they know it will end badly.
[12:31] * Looking up raincity user info...
[12:31] <sundar> But top people in military want this war - so that they make president look incompetant to handle crisis
[12:31] * Looking up raincity user info...
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[12:32] <ShadowCow> Rumsfeld is a civvie, not military.
[12:32] <sundar> But he influences decisions more than powell
[12:33] <ShadowCow> But he is a civilian.  If he's pushing the point from DoD, he doesn't have to have many officers or any officers behind it.  He has like, Poindexter.  Powell damn well knows better.
[12:35] <sundar> In politics, it does not matter how many people you have, its how many people who back you in closed room discussions of loyalists which will help influence decisions
[12:35] <sundar> How can anyone  believe in connection between alqueda and iraq
[12:35] <ShadowCow> The thing about this business is that it is entirely political.  That's why the distinction between civilian and military motives is important.
[12:36] <ShadowCow> It's possible.
[12:36] <ShadowCow> But I think much more tangentially than they want us to believe.
[12:38] <sundar> For all we know, the sep 11 hijackers may very well be break away al queda men who did it for money..
[12:39] <sundar> The establishment wants some event or other to divert people from approach of 12th planet
[12:40] * sundar has left #Troubled_Times
[12:40] <ShadowCow> I think they want some diversion to keep people from thinking about the secure financial future they get when they get out of office with American controlled Iraqi oil and the undermining of the Saudi market,
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[13:00] <tied2> z freax
[13:00] <z> hmmm... freax is not as sexy as 'you' are tied2 *licksnkissesnhumpstied2*
[13:00] <tied2> z seen freax
[13:00] <z> freax was last seen on #troubled_times 1 days, 1 hours, 57 minutes and 21 seconds ago, saying: oh please [Sat Dec  7 12:01:41 2002]
[13:01] <raincity> he said he wasn't coming back...until May.
[13:01] <tied2> lol why?
[13:01] <raincity> something about giving up on trying to help people realize that they are wasting their time believing in zetatalk.
[13:01] <raincity> he was very angry.
[13:02] <tied2> hum
[13:02] <raincity> ..then that Himitsu guy followed suit.
[13:03] <tied2> thats a dangerous stance
[13:05] <QueenVee> oh my, as Sapphire would say, i hope they don't commit suicide....
[13:05] <tied2>   «««««««««««« Hello ShadowCow »»»»»»»»»»»»
[13:07] <raincity> Some guy on sci.astro told Steve Havas "Perhaps you should buy a gun.  All you'll need is one bullet" --that's cold.
[13:08] <QueenVee> no, that's just silly
[13:08] <raincity> It seems that some of the sci.astro people actually WANT people to commit suicide.
[13:08] <QueenVee> oh, for sure
[13:09] <tied2> sure so they can justify and point the finger
[13:09] <QueenVee> it's just television to them
[13:09] <tied2> self centered assholes
[13:09] <raincity> that's what I figured, they feed off the circus atmosphere they have created.
[13:10] <QueenVee> Sapphire used to lurk around here private messaging people in our channel, asking if they'd heard anybody talk about commiting suicide if the poleshift didn't happen....
[13:10] <QueenVee> when he didn't get any takers, he just started making stuff up...
[13:11] <raincity> He must have a lot of time on his hands.
[13:11] <QueenVee> at one point he told Zetapal that he'd heard that i was planning to off myself if PX didn't show up; then the next day he told me that he'd heard that Zetapal was planning suicide....
[13:11] <S7L> People write pretty stupid things. I remember reading the same email.
[13:11] <tied2> I learned a long time ago  they would rather die wrong than admit they were wrong
[13:11] <tied2> there ego will never permit it
[13:11] <QueenVee> if they are so convinced that they are right in their point of view, why do they have to frabricate stuff to support it?
[13:12] <raincity> Sounds like he might have been trying to play people against each other.
[13:12] <QueenVee> mmm
[13:13] <QueenVee> real sick guy
[13:13] <raincity> sounds like it.
[13:13] <S7L> Oh no. Neighbours are fighting again. :(
[13:13] <QueenVee> oh, and then yesterday ShadowCow was telling people in here that i'd been speculating that Art Bell has retired from his radio show because of PX....
[13:13] <raincity> I saw that.
[13:13] <QueenVee> when in fact i was saying the exact opposite....
[13:14] <S7L> maybe it was simple error from ShadowCow's part? Can you comment, SC
[13:14] <QueenVee> to someone who was putting forth that theory
[13:14] <ShadowCow> She said it on #psd before I left.
[13:14] <QueenVee> nah, she was there for the conversation; it's pure fabrication
[13:14] <QueenVee> ShadowCow: you're pathetic
[13:14] <ShadowCow> *yawn*
[13:15] <QueenVee> and i suppose you believe that Zetapal and i also said we're planning to commit suicide....
[13:15] <QueenVee> talk about gullible
[13:15] <S7L> my neighbours seem to have shouting episodes at about once per month rate.
[13:16] <QueenVee> only once a month?
[13:16] <Red> lucky you S&L
[13:16] <S7L> Only once so that I hear about it.
[13:16] <Red> heh s7l...
[13:16] <raincity> I don't remember seeing shadowcow in poleshiftdiscussion.
[13:16] <S7L> Hi Red! Long time no meet.
[13:16] <QueenVee> she used to lurk there...
[13:16] <Red> indeed... its been a while
[13:18] <S7L> IMO is asking Havas to take new shots.
[13:18] <monk> she used to be there but she didn't like how queenvee was so she left
[13:18] <S7L> We already know that it's not variable star as well.
[13:18] <QueenVee> why doesn't IMO take them himself?
[13:18] <S7L> Maybe he does. It'd be nice.
[13:19] <S7L> IMO happened to confirm that the new object there is a recent one, it wasn't in the November 16th images (or 15th) which happen to cover the same region
[13:19] <QueenVee> and how did he confirm that?
[13:19] <QueenVee> with what evidence?
[13:19] <S7L> Well the evidence provided by Havas.
[13:19] <QueenVee> oh, i see; i misunderstood
[13:19] <S7L> His images of the 15/16th day do not show this feature that looks astronomic.
[13:20] <S7L> So everyone agrees that there's something there. It'll be interesting to see what it is and where does it go.
[13:20] <monk> yes it will
[13:20] <QueenVee> well said, S7L
[13:24] <S7L> My suspicion is that it's an asteroid and probably doesn't quite follow the path predicted by Lieder, in which case it will be quite an embarrassment... But if it does, then I guess a few faces will make a 180° turn of opinion.
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[13:25] <QueenVee> only time will tell
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[14:27] <LeXar> hello
[14:27] <z> niihau, LeXar
[14:27] <Mr_Odd> howdy lex
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[14:31] <obany> obany?
[14:31] <z> hmmm... obany is much more intelligent than *you* obany
[14:31] <obany> doh
[14:31] <monk> !seen jurian
[14:31] <Mr_Odd> lol
[14:31] <monk> hi
[14:36] * Mr_Odd has quit IRC (Killed (juditness (speak for yourself, my boy. :))))
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[14:40] <monk> wb mr_odd
[14:41] <Mr_Odd> rehi monk
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[14:57] * juditness is back.. i left this on? =x [been gone for: 1day 6mins 10secs] at 23:58:50
[14:58] * juditness is away.. bye. [mail: judit@geekychick.org] at 23:59:14
[15:05] * obany goes now bye
[15:06] * obany has quit IRC (bye goodnight take care sleep well welterusten )
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[15:50] <Mr_Odd> ok, so a guy comes up to you
[15:51] <Mr_Odd> says, "sonny boy, I'll give you $300 to eat 6 pounds of nougat in a half-hour"
[15:51] <Mr_Odd> wouldja do it?
[15:51] <Mr_Odd> or "baby girl" instead of "sonny boy", depending on your sex
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[17:37] <Howmo> z, hello.
[17:37] <z> Howmo: i'm not following you...
[17:37] <Howmo> z, still??
[17:37] <z> howmo: no idea
[17:37] <Howmo> z, I know how you feel.
[17:37] <z> Howmo: what?
[17:38] <Howmo> z, right.
[17:38] <z> Howmo: i'm not following you...
[17:38] <Howmo> z, who's on first?
[17:38] <z> wish i knew, howmo
[17:38] <Howmo> z, what time is it?
[17:38] <z> howmo: bugger all, i dunno
[17:39] <Howmo> z, are you aware?
[17:39] <z> bugger all, i dunno, howmo
[17:39] <Howmo> z, what's on second?
[17:39] <z> howmo: i don't know
[17:39] <Howmo> z, are you happy?
[17:39] <z> howmo: bugger all, i dunno
[17:39] <Howmo> z, who are you?
[17:39] <z> i guess i am Howmo, so msg Howmo in private for some hot cyber
[17:39] <Howmo> z, OK.
[17:39] <z> Howmo: huh?
[17:39] <Howmo> z, I don't know.
[17:39] <z> Howmo: what?
[17:40] <Howmo> z, what?
[17:40] <z> howmo: wish i knew
[17:40] <Howmo> z, I wish I knew.
[17:40] <z> Howmo: sorry...
[17:40] <Howmo> z, sorry...
[17:40] <z> Howmo: what?
[17:40] <Howmo> z, what ?
[17:40] <z> howmo: no idea
[17:40] <Howmo> z, no idea.
[17:40] <z> Howmo: i'm not following you...
[17:40] <Howmo> z, that's good.
[17:40] <z> Howmo: what?
[17:41] <Howmo> z, I give up.
[17:41] <z> Howmo: sorry...
[17:41] <Howmo> z, I know how you feel.
[17:41] <z> Howmo: i'm not following you...
[17:41] <Howmo> z, this is craZy.
[17:41] <z> ...but this is better then zetatalk...
[17:41] <Howmo> z, haha
[17:41] <z> Howmo: i'm not following you...
[17:41] <Howmo> z, hehehehe
[17:41] <z> Howmo: what?
[17:42] <Howmo> z, oh well.
[17:42] <z> Howmo: excuse me?
[17:42] <Howmo> z, you're excused.
[17:42] <z> Howmo: sorry...
[17:43] <Howmo> z, no I'm sorry.
[17:43] <z> Howmo: sorry...
[17:43] <Howmo> z, no, I'm sorry.
[17:43] <z> Howmo: sorry...
[17:43] <Howmo> z, sorry.
[17:43] <z> Howmo: what?
[17:43] <Howmo> z, a;ghqerty oqib aiha!
[17:43] <z> Howmo: what?
[17:43] <Howmo> z, can't you read?
[17:43] <z> bugger all, i dunno, howmo
[17:44] <Howmo> z, farewell.
[17:44] <z> Howmo: sorry...
[17:44] * Howmo has left #Troubled_Times
[17:56] <monk> monk?
[17:56] <z> well, monk is in the cia
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> shhhh
[17:57] <monk> ok
[18:01] <Mr_Odd> monk?
[18:01] <z> rumour has it monk is in the cia
[18:01] <Mr_Odd> monk?
[18:01] <z> i heard monk was in the cia
[18:01] <Mr_Odd> cia?
[18:01] <z> cia is the central intelligence agency
[18:01] <Mr_Odd> cia?
[18:01] <z> cia is probably the central intelligence agency
[18:02] <Mr_Odd> z, seen my grandma naked?
[18:02] <z> I haven't seen 'my', Mr_Odd
[18:02] <Mr_Odd> bah
[18:02] <Mr_Odd> z, seen yourself?
[18:02] <z> I haven't seen 'yourself', Mr_Odd
[18:02] <Mr_Odd> z, seen z?
[18:02] <z> I haven't seen 'z', Mr_Odd
[18:02] <Mr_Odd> z, yes you have
[18:02] <z> Mr_Odd: excuse me?
[18:02] <Mr_Odd> z, you're a dirty liar
[18:02] <z> Mr_Odd: excuse me?
[18:02] <Mr_Odd> z, you heard me
[18:02] <z> Mr_Odd: huh?
[18:02] <Mr_Odd> z, don't "huh" me, yound man
[18:02] <z> Mr_Odd: what?
[18:03] <Mr_Odd> z, ok, I've had just about enough of this
[18:03] <z> Mr_Odd: sorry...
[18:03] <Mr_Odd> z, good
[18:03] <z> Mr_Odd: what?
[18:03] <Mr_Odd> z, but don't think you can fix everything with just "sorry"
[18:03] <Mr_Odd> z, now go to your room!
[18:03] <z> Mr_Odd: sorry...
[18:03] <Mr_Odd> z, NOW!
[18:03] <z> now is the time to do some arson
[18:03] <Mr_Odd> z, NO! that's bad
[18:03] <z> Mr_Odd: excuse me?
[18:04] <Mr_Odd> z, ok young man, I've had JUST about enough of that attitude of yours.  You're grounded, buster
[18:04] <z> Mr_Odd: what?
[18:04] <Mr_Odd> z, you heard me!  For 4 weeks!
[18:04] <z> Mr_Odd: excuse me?
[18:04] <Mr_Odd> z, oh yes
[18:04] <z> Mr_Odd: i'm not following you...
[18:04] <Mr_Odd> z, ok, fine, two can play at that game
[18:04] <z> Mr_Odd: sorry...
[18:04] <Mr_Odd> z, sorry
[18:04] <z> Mr_Odd: sorry...
[18:04] <Mr_Odd> z, sorry...
[18:04] <z> Mr_Odd: sorry...
[18:04] <Mr_Odd> z, sorry...
[18:04] <z> Mr_Odd: what?
[18:04] * Mr_Odd gives z the backhand
[18:05] <Mr_Odd> now where the hell is my belt?
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Session Close: Mon Dec 09 00:00:00 2002