Session Start: Thu Jan 23 00:00:00 2003
Session Ident: #Troubled_Times
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[01:17] <Sapphire> hey there
[01:17] <Himitsu> hey!
[01:18] <Sapphire> Have you heard any references to a Planet X type scam from the 1970's?
[01:20] <Himitsu> no
[01:20] <Sapphire> Someone emailed me about it.
[01:20] <Himitsu> really?
[01:20] <Sapphire> I didn't know anything myself.
[01:20] <Himitsu> I think the first time I ever heard of px was only a few months ago
[01:21] <Sapphire> Us debunkers have really killed this channel.
[01:22] <Sapphire> Hours go by with no activity.
[01:22] <Himitsu> yeah
[01:22] <Himitsu> I really earned my paycheck this month I think
[01:22] <Sapphire> lol
[01:22] <Himitsu> heheh
[01:23] <Himitsu> I get a bonus of 10% on my base pay for each source of information I plug
[01:23] <Himitsu> ;)
[01:23] <Sapphire> sounds good
[01:23] <Himitsu> well, it keeps food on the table
[01:23] <Himitsu> lol
[01:23] <Sapphire> what goes on in #earthchanges?
[01:24] <Himitsu> I don't know really
[01:24] <Himitsu> there is a guy in there named tied2, I talk to him sometimes about linux
[01:25] <Himitsu> he invited me in there and mostly I don't really talk when they start talking about px
[01:25] <Himitsu> just when he starts talking about linux
[01:28] <Himitsu> kind of quiet in sci.astro today
[01:28] <Sapphire> right.  Nancy should post some personal attacks to get things going again.
[01:29] <Himitsu> yeah
[01:29] <Himitsu> nothing stimulates the mind in sci.astro like a vicious personal attack
[01:30] <Sapphire> like the time when the Zetas called sci.astro "scum".
[01:30] <Himitsu> lol
[01:31] <Sapphire> let me see if it pastes in here...
[01:31] <Himitsu> must be a difficult word for them to understand
[01:31] <Sapphire> (Begin ZetaTalk[TM])
[01:31] <Sapphire> ...there we go.
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[08:26] <Dsarith> Hi Odd
[08:26] <Dsarith> Hi Jesus
[08:26] <Odd> Hi Dsarith
[08:27] <Dsarith> Did you get tired of talking to ojabun yesterday
[08:27] <Dsarith> :-)
[08:30] <Odd> ha, yeah
[08:32] <Buddha> he's crazy
[08:32] <Buddha> hey dsarith
[08:32] <Dsarith> Hey buddha, you are always here, but mediating alot :-)
[08:32] <Buddha> yeah i just leave it on. i'm jesus when i'm at work
[08:32] <Buddha> eating breakfast right now
[08:32] <Dsarith> Oh gotcha
[08:33] <Dsarith> Cool
[08:33] <Buddha> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030123/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_polls_1
[08:33] <Buddha> looks like most people aren't mindlessly gullible
[08:34] <Dsarith> True... his stimulus plan lacks big time
[08:34] <Buddha> i still don't understand how people could believe that it would work at all...it's total pork politics
[08:34] <Buddha> it totally is about throwing cash at rich people
[08:34] <Dsarith> Exactly... I am so sick of our entire political structure. We need to dump them all and get the common man back into offices
[08:34] <Odd> yep
[08:35] <Buddha> yeah do anything to erase the scary signature of nepotism, bribery, etc.
[08:36] <Buddha> i don't understand the 51 percent of people in this poll that think that bush is handling foreign policy well
[08:36] <Buddha> i mean...he's trying to START A WAR
[08:36] <Odd> yeah for chrissakes
[08:36] <Buddha> i think this poll and many others are totally fucked
[08:37] <Buddha> but then again, i don't know the percentage of people who sit home, watch MSNBC/CNN, and don't dare deviate from the commander-in-chief because it's "disrespectful"
[08:37] <Dsarith> I cant figure out why he trying to start a war either. However, I was telling Buddha I am not against war
[08:37] <Buddha> hang on there's a breakdown here:
[08:37] <Buddha> http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/roses.html
[08:38] <Buddha> it starts to make sense
[08:38] <Odd> it's obvious why he's going to war
[08:38] <Odd> it's classic imperialism
[08:38] <Dsarith> True
[08:39] <Odd> gain control over key resources
[08:39] <Dsarith> I would agree with that
[08:39] <Odd> throw money at the defense industry and please his campaign contributors
[08:39] <Buddha> well i think there are specific reasons, but imperialism is the thing that keeps their morality from being in the picture at all
[08:39] <Odd> this war is a right-wingers wet dream
[08:39] <Buddha> there are economic and israel-based reasons
[08:40] <Buddha> there are a lot of people that stand to benefit from the war and don't care how many hundreds of thousands of darkies and zit-faced american 18 year-olds die to get it
[08:40] <Odd> well actually there aren't that many that stand to benefit
[08:40] <Buddha> number-wise
[08:40] <Odd> it's just the ones that will benefit are the ones with all the money/power
[08:40] <Buddha> but in terms of the amount of agendas at work
[08:41] <Buddha> it's more complex than we can really grasp, only having articles to look at and whatnot
[08:41] <Buddha> all we know is that there's a big push to war, whether or not there's evidence
[08:41] <Dsarith> True Buddha
[08:41] <Odd> i think it's really not all the complex at all
[08:41] <Buddha> we can analyze specific factors and see where peoples' loyalties lie
[08:42] <Buddha> it's not just simple imperialism and arrogance though
[08:42] <Buddha> it's not just a president trying to make a name for himself in the history books
[08:42] <Buddha> the surrounding arab countries are going to be in such chaos that they very well might collapse
[08:43] <Buddha> there's a huge israel push for the war
[08:43] <Odd> of course
[08:43] <Odd> well what else would it be?
[08:43] <Buddha> economic
[08:43] <Buddha> oil (biggest import) into an export
[08:44] <Buddha> stalls the crash of the economy, which is looming
[08:44] <Buddha> going to be worse than the depression
[08:44] <Dsarith> True Buddha
[08:45] <Dsarith> We can expect a serious depression, but then we can have another war
[08:45] <Buddha> i'm freaked when i wonder what kind of shit is going to happen in the US because of an economic collapse
[08:45] <Buddha> like martial law?
[08:46] <Dsarith> Yip... no matter what its better to be in an isolated place
[08:46] <Buddha> http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0123/p08s03-comv.html
[08:46] <Buddha> billion per week to keep forces stationed in the gulf
[08:47] <Dsarith> Yep
[08:47] <Odd> economic collapse IS inevitable
[08:47] <Odd> capitalism inherently creates a declining rate of profit
[08:47] <Buddha> add to that the federal reserve and its huge interest chunks
[08:47] <Odd> that's why labor is exploited so much more now than 80 years ago
[08:47] <Buddha> mountains of debt waiting to default
[08:47] <Buddha> yeah seriously
[08:47] <Odd> corporations need to start squeezing more and more in order to keep their bottom lines up
[08:48] <Buddha> people our age could have had a home by now just working in the factory in the 50s
[08:48] <Odd> after WWII, we had the permanent arms economy and the cold war to keep the economy afloat
[08:48] <Odd> but now defense spending is 500 times a smaller % of the GNP than it was then
[08:48] <Odd> so the PAE doesn't really work anymore
[08:48] <Odd> so now we've turned to "globalization"
[08:48] <Odd> using foreign labor to cut production costs
[08:48] <Odd> as well as a return to classic empire-building
[08:49] <Buddha> yeah, which transfers all manufacturing power to china
[08:49] <Odd> yep
[08:50] <Buddha> the problem with this mindless push by the politicians is that so many people wake up each day
[08:50] <Odd> but not too long from now, the bottom will fall out from that, as welll
[08:50] <Buddha> some people see the whole warmongering thing go to its current completely illogical level and start to wonder
[08:50] <Odd> economists generally agree that our economy as it exists now simply cannot sustain itself for any longer than 100 more years, though some say as little as 40
[08:51] <Buddha> from now?
[08:51] <Odd> yeah, and that's what we can only hope will happen more
[08:51] <Odd> yep!
[08:51] <Buddha> i don't see how it can last 10 years
[08:51] <Odd> well yeah
[08:51] <Odd> but economists tend to be right wing and optimistic
[08:51] <Odd> heh
[08:51] <Buddha> ha ha
[08:51] <Buddha> if iraq doesn't happen, 5 years max
[08:51] <Odd> well I think there's going to be a massive attack
[08:52] <Buddha> how
[08:52] <Odd> something that'll make 9/11 look like a pinprick
[08:52] <Buddha> ahh
[08:52] <Odd> well, think about it logically
[08:52] <Buddha> to justify war
[08:52] <Buddha> and divert economic blame
[08:52] <Odd> no, perpetrated by terrorists, not the government
[08:52] <Buddha> hmm
[08:52] <Odd> 9/11 had an effect of steeling americans, and creating great pride
[08:52] <Odd> "if we are scared, then they have won"
[08:53] <Odd> so that more or less has now made attacks of that scale counter-productive
[08:53] <Odd> they would just steel us more and drive the war forward
[08:53] <Odd> that leaves only two kinds of attacks that makes sense
[08:53] <Odd> frequent, small assualts like the suicide bombings in israel
[08:53] <Odd> ...or a massive attack of a scale that has never been seen before
[08:53] <Buddha> well
[08:54] <Odd> and it's not impossible
[08:54] <Buddha> i don't think muslims yet have the complete hopelessness to start that up
[08:54] <Buddha> if the war happened, THEN they would have it
[08:54] <Odd> it's remarkably easy to say, load nukes onto a handful of freighter ships and set them off in a dozen coastal city harbors
[08:54] <Odd> ehhh... I don't think so
[08:54] <Buddha> man i'm like 8 miles away from LA harbor...i can see it from the corner
[08:55] <Odd> jihad dictates a war against the US, and it's told to them that citizens are the enemy too, because they support the evil government
[08:55] <Odd> all in all, there isn't a whole lot that would keep them from doing that
[08:55] <Buddha> but terrorists don't necessarily have the resources
[08:55] <Odd> pssh
[08:55] <Odd> they have more than enough resources
[08:55] <Buddha> where would they get nukes?
[08:56] <Buddha> they didn't do 9/11
[08:56] <Odd> after the fall of the soviet union, nuclear researchers form the USSR became free agents
[08:56] <Odd> and I'm sure you know they have the funds to pay a researcher's salary
[08:56] <Buddha> in some form, yeah
[08:57] <Odd> 52 tons of weapons-grade nuclear material goes missing from the US each year
[08:57] <Odd> they just don't know where it went
[08:57] <Odd> well.... it goes somewhere, alright
[08:57] <Buddha> yeah
[08:57] <Buddha> hey i'll be on jesus in about 30-40. gotta head to work
[08:57] <Odd> the one tough part is missiles to deploy the warheads
[08:57] <Buddha> so just detonate
[08:57] <Odd> but if you're loading it on a ship, that's not needed
[08:57] <Buddha> yeah
[08:58] <Odd> ok, go do your work thang
[08:58] <Buddha> i'd be vaporized if it happened in LA harbor
[08:58] <Buddha> later
[08:58] <Odd> make more money for the MAN
[08:58] <Odd> ;p
[08:58] <Buddha> :0
[08:58] <Odd> i'm just messin ;p
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[09:36] <Jesus> boom
[09:36] <Odd> bap
[09:36] <Jesus> there are so many different types of reiki, and so many people are charging assloads of money to learn them
[09:36] <Jesus> it's stupid
[09:37] <Odd> heh
[09:56] <Jesus> jeez...all these reiki sites are combo reiki and humanity consciousness ascension sites
[09:56] <Odd> lol
[09:57] <Jesus> hey who knows (i don't)
[09:57] <Jesus> reiki is insane...it just doesn't make sense
[09:57] <Jesus> but it works
[09:58] <Odd> yeah there's a lotta shit like that
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[10:06] <Douch3> hi
[10:06] <Odd> hi
[10:06] <z> niihau, Odd
[10:06] <Dsarith> Hi Douch3
[10:08] <Dsarith> Odd: Did I mention that gays were Abarrent :-)
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[10:08] <Dsarith> Hi Cruithne
[10:08] <Cruithne> hell-o
[10:10] <Dsarith> Budda is meditating :-)
[10:11] <Cruithne> uh oh that means little exercise thus fatter
[10:11] <Dsarith> Yep
[10:16] <Dsarith> Did I mention to everyone that Planet X is coming in May
[10:16] <Odd> hehe
[10:16] <Dsarith> You are here Odd
[10:16] <Dsarith> Did you get my joke
[10:16] <Cruithne> what joke
[10:16] <Cruithne> lol
[10:17] <Dsarith> Big discussion yesterday with Ojabun
[10:24] <Jesus> om
[10:24] <Jesus> gays are abarrent?
[10:24] <Dsarith> Yes Ojabun went on and on yesterday
[10:24] <Jesus> abarrent is a word that i have never heard
[10:24] <Dsarith> He had the answer to life
[10:24] <Odd> aberrant
[10:25] <Dsarith> Wasnt that what it was all about?
[10:25] <Dsarith> Maybe I am wrong
[10:25] <Jesus> i see
[10:25] <Odd> yeah
[10:25] <Odd> the best part though was that he had the definition of aberrant backwards
[10:25] <Dsarith> I hate it when I have to explain my jokes... lol
[10:25] <Dsarith> Yep
[10:25] <Odd> i have a joke that needs no explaining
[10:25] <Odd> it's my favorite joke ever
[10:25] <Jesus> it's strange how he talks about how humanity's chance has gone by. pretty weak.
[10:26] <Odd> whatever, let him sit on his high horse and thumb his nose at humanity and pat himself on the back for being so enlightened
[10:26] <Cruithne> hi Jesus
[10:26] <Odd> ok, so two muffins are in an oven
[10:26] <Jesus> hi cruithne
[10:26] <Jesus> and his sonic booms
[10:26] <Odd> one muffin leans over to the other one and says, "damn, it sure is hot in here."
[10:27] <Odd> then the other one goes
[10:27] <Jesus> where did the muffins learn to talk? ;-)
[10:27] <Odd> "HOLY SHIT A TALKING MUFFIN!"
[10:27] <Odd> lol yeah that's the idea ;p
[10:27] <Jesus> right on
[10:27] <Jesus> ha ha
[10:27] <Dsarith> lol
[10:27] <Douch3> lol
[10:27] <Cruithne> ho ho ho
[10:28] <Cruithne> is there any thing that's gonna get better or is everything gonna get worse
[10:29] <Douch3> it will only get worse
[10:29] <Jesus> well
[10:29] <Odd> what do you mean?
[10:29] <z> hmmm... do you mean is it okay or is it possible?
[10:29] <Cruithne> the future loks bleak,alas
[10:29] <Odd> forget do you mean
[10:29] <z> Odd: I forgot do you mean
[10:29] <Jesus> it will get worse from normal perspectives
[10:29] <Jesus> like war and famine and disease
[10:30] <Jesus> but it's all about living through it and growing and staying strong
[10:30] <Jesus> it's going to kick ass after all the crap is done
[10:30] <Jesus> thus sayeth the LORD
[10:30] <Jesus> ha ha
[10:30] <Cruithne> ahem
[10:31] <Odd> nancy is the lord.
[10:31] <Odd> nancy?
[10:31] <z> i heard nancy was there
[10:31] <Jesus> amen
[10:31] <Odd> nancy?
[10:31] <z> nancy is there
[10:31] <Odd> nancy?
[10:31] <z> i guess nancy is there
[10:31] <Cruithne> i see gold is 364
[10:31] <Odd> d'oh
[10:31] <Jesus> no more nancy is crazy?
[10:31] <Odd> forget nancy
[10:31] <z> Odd: I forgot nancy
[10:32] <Cruithne> how high will it go
[10:32] <Jesus> higher than that
[10:32] <Odd> nancy is crazy|a fraud|a threat to all that is right with society
[10:32] <Odd> nancy?
[10:32] <z> rumour has it nancy is a fraud
[10:32] <Odd> nancy?
[10:32] <z> nancy is crazy
[10:32] <Odd> nancy?
[10:32] <z> nancy is a threat to all that is right with society
[10:32] <Odd> D:
[10:32] <Jesus> dope
[10:32] <Odd> :D rather
[10:32] <Cruithne> she has a fan club tho
[10:32] <Jesus> so does satan
[10:32] <Cruithne> i want 1
[10:32] <Odd> lol
[10:32] <Jesus> rev sun myung moon has a big fan club
[10:33] <Odd> so start a grand cospiracy theory, cruinthe
[10:33] <Odd> that Jesus dude has a pretty big fan club
[10:33] <Cruithne> yes he's popular
[10:33] <Jesus> yeah i'm ok
[10:33] <Odd> not you man
[10:33] <Jesus> i'm not real though
[10:33] <Odd> heh
[10:34] * Jesus is just playing the role
[10:35] <Douch3> hes gonna have a lot more fans when sh.t hits the fan
[10:37] <Dsarith> Exactly Douch3
[10:37] <Jesus> hope not
[10:38] <Jesus> believing in jesus and classifying yourself as a poor sinner/sheep isn't helpful for anyone
[10:38] <Jesus> christianity isn't something that helps heal people, it just covers up bad crap with fanaticism
[10:39] <Odd> well, it does more than that
[10:39] <Odd> gives people a purpose to live a good life
[10:39] <Douch3> jesus was the best
[10:39] <Odd> be nice to others n such
[10:39] <Odd> because this isn't all there is
[10:39] <Douch3> how many of you in here would offer himself for all mankind?
[10:39] <Jesus> there's underlying wisdom in it, for sure
[10:39] <Jesus> i would
[10:40] <Jesus> it's not like jesus is burning in "hell" to keep us all out of it
[10:40] <Douch3> but would you do the same for 1 man?
[10:40] <Cruithne>  h Jesus u r our saviour
[10:40] <Jesus> not sure, douche
[10:40] <Jesus> the whole jesus thing is a myth based upon collections of older stories
[10:41] <Douch3> men has to learn and love jesus, while he loves you anyway in return, thats what makes him the one and only
[10:41] <Jesus> the only reason people believe it so widely is the same reason that most computer users use windows
[10:41] <Jesus> jesus never existed as anything but a fictional archetype
[10:41] <Odd> well, yes and no
[10:41] <Jesus> he's definitely a good example
[10:41] <Odd> religions "evolve"
[10:41] <Douch3> wrong
[10:41] <Odd> basic survival of the fittest
[10:41] <Douch3> they recently discovered a box
[10:41] <Douch3> made by josef
[10:41] <Jesus> that had jesus brother of james?
[10:41] <Jesus> it's a HOAX
[10:41] <Douch3> the carpenter
[10:42] <Odd> christianity gives the white man's burden, so people try to convert others at a huge rate
[10:42] <Douch3> for the brother of jesus
[10:42] <Odd> then there's huge penalties for even doubting it's truth
[10:42] <Jesus> it's a hoax, douche. you can't just read the first article and assume it to be real
[10:42] <Odd> i dunno, it might be real, Jesus
[10:42] <Jesus> there are lots of people out there to prove their dogmas to be correct
[10:42] <Douch3> listen
[10:42] <Odd> those stories are based on SOMETHING
[10:42] <Douch3> the bible says its true
[10:42] <Douch3> and doesnt try to prove it
[10:42] <Cruithne> yes the church down street has big sign on front "fear god & obey"
[10:42] <Douch3> it just says it is
[10:42] <Jesus> the stories are older than the israelites
[10:42] <Cruithne> yikes
[10:43] <Jesus> ha ha
[10:43] <Jesus> well the thing about that box
[10:43] <Jesus> is that the "brother of jesus" thing was etched on there at a later date than the "james"
[10:43] <Jesus> and i wonder if they put "jesus" there or if they put "yeshua"
[10:43] <Douch3> i would have to look up the artikel
[10:44] <Douch3> ymost people have to see to believe
[10:44] <Douch3> but it works exactly the other way around
[10:44] <Jesus> there are no historical accounts of jesus until 100 years after his life, and there are plenty of accounts of far lesser people in jerusalem
[10:45] <Jesus> the fact is, you can believe in jesus' wisdom and accept it to be just that, wisdom
[10:45] <Jesus> but you can't go around telling people that jesus is real and that the stories are real
[10:45] <Jesus> there's no factual basis to support it at all
[10:46] <Douch3> ok
[10:46] <Cruithne>  cayce talked about jesus & also essenes people years before any 1 knew they ever exsited till they found the dead sea scrolls
[10:46] <Douch3> then your saying the bible is false
[10:46] <Douch3> it says clearly believe it all or jecect it all
[10:46] <Jesus> cayce talks about jesus in a different light from what the bible says
[10:46] <Cruithne> oh yes
[10:46] <Douch3> to reject some is to reject all
[10:47] <Jesus> the bible has some truth, and a lot of trumped up fiction
[10:47] <Jesus> no it's not
[10:47] <Jesus> there are little "escape clauses" in the bible that are like "BELIEVE JESUS OR ROT IN HELL"
[10:47] <Jesus> people put those in there manually to keep peasants from straying
[10:47] <Cruithne> we r being taught by people who don't know , they take bible literally
[10:48] <Douch3> no we are not
[10:48] <Douch3> thats the problem with todays world
[10:48] <Cruithne> that why church has all that $
[10:48] <Douch3> men refuses to accept there is a god
[10:48] <Jesus> no, there IS a god
[10:48] <Jesus> that's for sure
[10:48] <Douch3> thats what brings his downfall
[10:48] <Jesus> we are all a direct result of god
[10:49] <Cruithne> god implies afeeling  otherwise it's a cold hearted randomness
[10:49] <Jesus> but christianity is a leech on a very real phenomenon
[10:50] <Cruithne> not only christianity but all religions
[10:50] <Jesus> yup
[10:50] <Douch3> read in the book of revelation about the 7 seals
[10:50] <Cruithne> they horde at peoples expense
[10:50] <Jesus> book of revelation is older is older than the bible
[10:50] <Douch3> its pretty simular to the world today
[10:50] <Douch3> a clear sign the end is near
[10:51] <Cruithne> uh oh
[10:51] <Douch3> :)
[10:51] <Jesus> the "end" is nothing but a transformation
[10:51] <Douch3> dont worry jesus can save us all
[10:51] <Douch3> isnt that a gr8 tought
[10:51] <Douch3> its what the human brain wants us to believe
[10:51] <Jesus> yeah because it's simple
[10:51] <Douch3> we see everything in a scientific way
[10:52] <Douch3> about chemical reactions gas, space dust
[10:52] <Douch3> stuff like that
[10:52] <Jesus> all those are pretty much symptoms of our reality
[10:52] <Dsarith> Religion in not christianity
[10:52] <Douch3> but it could verry well still be the work of god
[10:52] <Dsarith> Christianity is relationship with Christ/God
[10:53] <Jesus> yes, because the very basis of existence is because of god
[10:53] <Jesus> christ is an archetype
[10:53] <Dsarith> Christ is God in human form, also known as son of God
[10:53] <Douch3> amen
[10:53] <Jesus> however, jesus (considered to be christ) never existed as we believe
[10:54] <Dsarith> How do you know this Jesus
[10:54] <Jesus> there would be assloads of evidence
[10:54] <Jesus> biblical archaeology is one big disappointment after another
[10:54] <Dsarith> You are so wrong... and that is proven Jesus
[10:54] <Jesus> full of people out to twist artifacts to justify an old book
[10:55] <Jesus> how is that?
[10:55] <Jesus> israelites are caananites
[10:55] <Douch3> well the bible is real enough for me to believe
[10:55] <Jesus> because the bible is very thorough
[10:55] <Douch3> it reflects the world today exactly as discribed
[10:55] <Dsarith> Archeologist are saying that even if they dont believe in the Bible the more the find the more they see written in the Bible
[10:55] <Jesus> why is it easy to believe the bible? why is it easy to believe ZT?
[10:55] <Odd> ZT is very thorough ;)
[10:55] <Dsarith> Bible, if nothing else is a valuable historical document to archeologist
[10:55] <Jesus> because the bible has SOME historical basis
[10:56] <Jesus> but because one thing in the bible is right, it doesn't mean the whole thing is
[10:56] <Douch3> i never believed in anything but myself
[10:56] <Jesus> there's far more than just yourself, douche
[10:56] <Douch3> i just felt a need to do something
[10:56] <Douch3> so i went to a christian church once
[10:56] <Douch3> and next i know im a christian :)
[10:57] <Jesus> i grew up catholic
[10:57] <Douch3> it gave me a lot of strength
[10:57] <Jesus> yeah because you're dealing with a good book full of wisdom, myth, and lies
[10:57] <Jesus> and some historical fact
[10:57] <Dsarith> What made you decide Jesus wasnt real..Jesus
[10:57] <Douch3> ok but i have many things to whitness about
[10:58] <Jesus> it started when i began research and discovered that the books of the bible were written in the late 2nd century
[10:58] <Jesus> and how people have been twisting it
[10:58] <Douch3> my aunt got cured of cancer
[10:58] <Douch3> and lots of other things
[10:58] <Jesus> yeah, but people get healed because they are ready to be healed
[10:58] <Jesus> i heal people every day
[10:58] <Jesus> it's called reiki. check it out. it's real. it works. it's crazy.
[10:59] <Cruithne> all healing comes from within
[10:59] <Douch3> trust me i tried it all :)
[10:59] <Douch3> well most of it
[10:59] <z> most of it is on the forums
[10:59] <Jesus> there are a whole lot of phenomenons out there that don't require faith
[10:59] * cosmic has joined #Troubled_Times
[10:59] <Dsarith> Jesus: Is God real.. just trying to figure out where you are in all this
[10:59] <Jesus> yes all healing comes from within. reiki people help facilitate that healing
[10:59] <Jesus> yes god is very real, but god is not an old man rolling snakes out of clay up in the clouds
[10:59] <Douch3> right so men heals himself?
[10:59] <Dsarith> What is he
[11:00] <z> it has been said that he is either right or wrong...
[11:00] <Jesus> it's more complex than that, but that's a very important part of healing
[11:00] * Odd is away.. stuffish kinda things at 14:04:22
[11:00] <Jesus> god is the source of everything
[11:00] <Douch3> imagine a wound
[11:00] * Odd has quit IRC (actually i should shut down)
[11:00] <Douch3> like when you cut yourself
[11:00] <Douch3> it heals
[11:00] <Jesus> god is love
[11:00] <Jesus> yeah...
[11:00] <Douch3> but scientist never been able to figure out the proces
[11:00] <Jesus> it's chi
[11:01] <Jesus> things heal because of chi
[11:01] <Douch3> could be
[11:01] <Jesus> all reiki is about is being able to use more powerful chi to heal things
[11:01] <Douch3> but the bible also has that one covered :)
[11:01] <Douch3> let me look it up for you
[11:01] <Jesus> then the whole bible must be real!
[11:01] <Dsarith> Right the whole bible is real
[11:01] <Dsarith> Has to be
[11:02] <Jesus> mosaic law has sanitation and stuff in it before the concepts were conceived at all
[11:02] <Jesus> no it doesn't have to be
[11:02] <Jesus> the bible is self-contradicting
[11:02] <Jesus> compare the gospel of john to the rest
[11:02] <Dsarith> Sure it does... to be accepted must accept all or nothing
[11:02] <Jesus> why don't letters from paul talk about christ's miracles?
[11:02] <Dsarith> Bible does not contradict itself
[11:02] <Jesus> it definitely does
[11:03] <Cruithne> sure it does
[11:03] <Jesus> it's not a black and white issue with accepting the bible
[11:03] <Douch3> If you will diligently obey the Lord your God, and do what is right in his eyes, and give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, then all the diseases that I put on the Egyptians I will not put on you, for I, the Lord, am your healer."
[11:03] <Dsarith> The four apostles were written focusing on a particular time and group of people
[11:03] <Jesus> that's like bush saying, "you're either with us or against us"
[11:03] <Dsarith> Nah
[11:03] <Douch3> right
[11:04] <Dsarith> Naturally we disagree Jesus, but I do like to hear your thoughts
[11:04] <Jesus> i like to hear yours too
[11:04] <Jesus> it's a pleasant discussion
[11:04] <Dsarith> Yep
[11:04] <Jesus> for me, it's important to understand the entirety of what i believe
[11:04] <Cruithne> it's interesting when muslims won a battle  they said god was on our side then when we won next we said the same  on & on
[11:04] <Jesus> bible didn't hold up to analysis
[11:04] <Dsarith> I would like to see where you say the bible is contradictory
[11:05] <Dsarith> I am no scholar but I can do research
[11:05] <Jesus> yeah how can god be on everyone's side? they all want god on their side
[11:05] <Cruithne> so god is always on side of victor?
[11:05] <Dsarith> Religion has caused and continue to cause many deaths in the world
[11:05] <Dsarith> I dont believe in Religion
[11:05] <Dsarith> I believe in ones relationship and fellowship
[11:06] <Jesus> cool
[11:06] <Dsarith> Religion in general is man made. But ones belief in the end is what matters
[11:06] <Jesus> it all gets personally tailored one way or another
[11:06] <Jesus> it's just an expression of your individuality
[11:07] <Jesus> your connection with something more than the physical world
[11:07] <Jesus> http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/23/kerry.foreignpolicy.ap/
[11:07] <Dsarith> To me God is a real entinty and I believe God sent his son to die for sinners in order that we can go to heaven, so Christ to me is real as well.
[11:07] <Jesus> where was this guy a few months ago?
[11:08] <Douch3> only when we are strong in believe till the end we will get all the answers to the questions of the universe
[11:08] <Jesus> it's tough to say whether god sent a son of his down. i don't think god has a son or daughter or family really
[11:08] <Jesus> yeah i mean, we all really SHOULD have different beliefs right now
[11:08] <Dsarith> I personally think if God could tell us, we wouldnt understand
[11:08] <Cruithne> god is not a entity such as a man god is an alien
[11:09] <Jesus> people who believe in islam and buddhism and stuff, it's all cool as long as it's positive right now
[11:09] <Cruithne> some say being of light
[11:09] <Cruithne> which i doubt
[11:09] <Dsarith> Cruthne: There are some theories about aht
[11:09] <Dsarith> about that :-)
[11:09] <Cruithne> even light is a vibration = sound?
[11:09] <Jesus> later dudes!
[11:09] <Dsarith> Later Jesus
[11:09] <Douch3> cu jesus
[11:12] * Dsarith is now known as Dsarith-away
[11:13] <Cruithne> according to cayce the pole shift is inevitable but by being in divine compliance it's effect on us could be lessened
[11:13] * cosmic has quit IRC (Read error to cosmic[pc-80-192-56-237-sl.blueyonder.co.uk]: Connection reset by peer)
[11:14] <Douch3> jean dixon said the same
[11:14] * cosmic has joined #Troubled_Times
[11:14] <Cruithne> it makes sense if 1 beleives in god
[11:15] <Cruithne> that's the requirement being in divine compliance
[11:15] <Cruithne> nothing else
[11:15] <Douch3> true
[11:17] <Cruithne> tere r amny who mediated for this to be
[11:18] <Douch3> i use to worry all the time
[11:19] <Douch3> not any more
[11:19] <Cruithne> i still have bouts of worry even tho i know to trust
[11:20] <Douch3> i intend to do like jesus did, stand till the end
[11:21] <Douch3> i hope the lord will guide me on the way tough :)
[11:21] <Cruithne> i hear ya
[11:23] <cosmic> what's god for?
[11:23] <Douch3> its his world
[11:24] <Douch3> its the same as if your car would say to you, what are you for?
[11:24] <Cruithne> lol
[11:24] <cosmic> I don't know what I am for
[11:24] <Cruithne> i think that ? is excellent
[11:24] <Cruithne> what is god for,hmmmmmmm , pondering again
[11:25] <Douch3> god is the creator of the universe
[11:25] <Douch3> he is the one and only ruler of everything
[11:25] <cosmic> is that what he is for?
[11:26] <Douch3> its not like he has a purpose for men
[11:26] <cosmic> for whom then?
[11:26] <Douch3> he has his own plan and time table :)
[11:26] <Cruithne> yes we r here for god
[11:26] <cosmic> god has deadlines?
[11:26] <Douch3> definatly
[11:27] <cosmic> what if he misses them?
[11:27] <Douch3> he never misses
[11:27] <Douch3> ever wondered about all the planets
[11:27] <Douch3> what makes them go round in harmony without coliding?
[11:27] <cosmic> I suppose god can travel in time anyway, so he could always go back and do some work before the project started
[11:27] <Douch3> we call it the laws of fysics and gravity
[11:28] <Douch3> i say its god
[11:28] <cosmic> I wonder if god has ever asked himself what he is for?
[11:28] <Douch3> god can do and does as he pleases
[11:29] <Douch3> hes in control
[11:30] <Cruithne> sure is & there's no way of bailing out
[11:30] <Douch3> thats what the bible claims also
[11:30] <Douch3> we cant change a thing about it
[11:31] <Cruithne> we r doomed to be sub servants
[11:31] <Cruithne> lol
[11:31] <Douch3> judgement day will come
[11:31] <cosmic> do sub servants live below the servants?
[11:31] <Douch3> not exactly cruithne
[11:31] <Cruithne> lol
[11:31] <Douch3> the bible says that the doctrine of jesus not only gets you to heaven
[11:31] <Cruithne> yes the angels r servants
[11:31] <Cruithne> we r mere mortals
[11:31] <Douch3> but you will rule along side of jesus
[11:32] <cosmic> how come you know so much about god?
[11:32] <Cruithne> i know what i kkow from my xperince
[11:32] <Douch3> im a christian
[11:32] <Douch3> since a year
[11:33] <Douch3> i never believed before
[11:33] <Cruithne> i have no religion
[11:33] <Douch3> and im 27 now
[11:33] <Douch3> well i used to have no religion
[11:33] <Cruithne> god is not a religion they r man made
[11:33] <Douch3> well maunly my own
[11:33] <cosmic> do you ever question your belief in god?
[11:34] * Dsarith-away is now known as Dsarith
[11:34] <Douch3> not any more
[11:35] <Douch3> i doubted in the begining
[11:35] <Cruithne> yes, but then something comes along & reminds me of the fact god is
[11:35] <Cruithne> i call it miracle
[11:35] <cosmic> do you think god asks himself questions?
[11:35] <Douch3> ever since i was baptised the biblical way
[11:35] <Douch3> god revealed lots of stuff to me
[11:35] <Douch3> trough the bible
[11:36] <Douch3> but also trough daily life
[11:36] <Douch3> exactly like the bible said it would
[11:36] <cosmic> what did god reveal to you through daily life, and how?
[11:36] <Cruithne> all i know is that i beleive in god & trust in that as for god asking ? don't know
[11:36] <Cruithne> but god i was told is all knowing
[11:37] <Cruithne> which i can understand as we r talking about god!
[11:37] <Cruithne> lol
[11:38] <Dsarith> Cosmic: God reveals himself all around
[11:38] <Cruithne> it's either u see the magic or u don't
[11:39] <Dsarith> Exactly
[11:39] <Cruithne> can't make 1 see what they don't
[11:40] <Cruithne> einstein said that
[11:40] <Douch3> well
[11:40] <Douch3> where would i begin
[11:40] <Douch3> i never realy went to school
[11:40] <Douch3> so im not educated at all
[11:40] <Douch3> i was without work for about 2 years
[11:40] <Douch3> i prayed for work
[11:40] <Douch3> and within 2 weeks a had a job
[11:41] <Douch3> where 6 months later i became floor manager :)
[11:41] <Douch3> i owed people money
[11:41] <Douch3> they said keep it :)
[11:41] <Douch3> and the more i insisted to pay
[11:42] <Douch3> the more they insisted i could use my money better
[11:42] * qul has joined #Troubled_Times
[11:42] <Dsarith> Hi qul
[11:42] <qul> hi
[11:43] <Dsarith> Keep going Douch3
[11:43] <Douch3> ok
[11:43] <Dsarith> qul: We are discussing christianity, Religion, ones own beliefs... feel free to jump in
[11:44] <Douch3> my relation with my girlfriend wich i had loved for 7 years was over
[11:44] <Douch3> but god gave me a second chance with her aswell :)
[11:44] <Douch3> i 1st read the bible when i was 19 and in jail
[11:44] <qul> i made a flash
[11:44] <Douch3> i didnt understand it
[11:44] <qul> http://members.lycos.nl/webhtml/eye.html here it is
[11:44] <Douch3> but since i went to church
[11:45] <Douch3> and since i was baptised
[11:45] <Douch3> the bible opend up and explained itself to me
[11:45] <qul> its about old structures and so on
[11:45] <qul> :-)
[11:45] <Dsarith> I will check it out qul
[11:45] <Douch3> theres lots of other stuff
[11:46] <Dsarith> Douch3: Why didnt you go to school growing up?
[11:46] <Douch3> but some is a little embarasing so i wont mention it :)
[11:46] <Douch3> i prefered ditching school
[11:46] <Douch3> and go out and steal with friends and smoke pot :)
[11:46] <Dsarith> Ok, the opportunity was there
[11:46] <Douch3> yes i went to about 5 different schools
[11:47] <Douch3> i managed to get kicked off everytime tough
[11:48] <Dsarith> Theres a parable about in the bible about a man forgiving a rich mans debt and a poor mans debt. The question posed who is more appreciative.
[11:48] <Dsarith> The answer is the poor man would be
[11:48] <Dsarith> In your case, you are far richer than most now because you had the world to gain.
[11:49] <Douch3> i have spoken to hundreds of different christians from all over the world
[11:49] <Douch3> they all have amazing storys
[11:50] <qul> Here this one is silly /artistic  :
[11:50] <qul> http://members.lycos.nl/webhtml/esc4.html
[11:50] <Dsarith> I have been a christian most of my life so I wouldnt have any amazing story
[11:51] <qul> ;-)
[11:51] <qul> :-)
[11:51] <Dsarith> Howhowever I am thankful
[11:51] <Douch3> thats even more amazing given the state of todays world
[11:51] <Cruithne> i keep wondering where the photons get there messages from
[11:52] <Douch3> its hard to explain but i will try
[11:52] <Douch3> its like sometimes you read something in a magazine
[11:52] <Douch3> or see something on tv
[11:52] <Douch3> and its the answer to a problem your dealing with at that time
[11:52] <Douch3> most would say its a coincedence
[11:53] <Douch3> i say its divine intervention
[11:53] <Dsarith> one sec on phone
[11:53] <qul> hi Jesus
[11:54] <qul> are you the sun of god?
[11:54] <qul> (6) <- satan?
[11:55] <qul> ;-)
[11:55] <qul> :-(
[11:55] <qul> :-S
[11:55] <qul> :-d
[11:55] <qul> :-)
[11:55] <cosmic> it's son
[11:55] <cosmic> not sun
[11:55] <qul> oh yes
[11:55] <cosmic> you don't want to be upsetting the son of god
[11:55] <cosmic> he might get god onto you
[11:56] <qul> :-|
[11:56] <qul> :$
[11:56] <qul> :'(
[11:56] <qul> (&) woof!
[11:56] <Cruithne> bow wow
[11:56] <qul> That 's my v-doggy hehe
[11:57] <Cruithne> that's my Bubba-doggy  :)
[11:58] <Dsarith> qul... Your flash is good
[11:58] <qul> the eye one?
[11:58] <qul> or that other silly movie
[11:58] <Dsarith> Yip
[11:59] <Dsarith> The eye one is good
[11:59] <qul> ok
[11:59] <qul> thx
[11:59] <qul> Do you believe in px?
[11:59] <Dsarith> Douch3: I am very happy for you and your life :-)
[12:00] <Dsarith> Yes, I believe in the possibility of a Poleshift in the near future
[12:00] <qul> not sure also?
[12:03] <qul> I am inpressed that Jesus is here..;-)
[12:04] <qul> I wanna talk to Jesus now
[12:04] <Dsarith> Jesus is here and Budda is here
[12:04] <Dsarith> Jesus is eating I think
[12:04] <qul> Jesus are you with us?
[12:04] <qul> Is Nancy vegetarian?
[12:05] <Cruithne> i think u gotta have appointment to talk to the holi 1's
[12:06] <qul> oh ,but Jesus always listen ..(at least some say)
[12:06] <qul> ;-)
[12:06] <qul> :-p
[12:06] <qul> Is obany not op more?
[12:06] <Cruithne> yes listner
[12:07] <Cruithne> was here earlier in other channel , went to work
[12:08] * slar has joined #Troubled_Times
[12:09] <qul> Is Nancy vegetarian?
[12:09] <qul> hmm..she eats bugs?
[12:10] <qul> and worms now?
[12:10] <qul> :-S heh?
[12:10] <slar> thats funny?
[12:10] <[3j]> no its not
[12:11] <qul> she is not?
[12:12] <slar> i am, and that is a trouble for me
[12:12] * Cruithne has quit IRC (. bye !)
[12:12] <slar> anemia, lack of strength
[12:12] <qul> Well anyway...she still didn't anwser that disc issue
[12:12] <[3j]> what disc issue?
[12:13] <qul> of course she is not..how do you say
[12:13] <qul> i can' t get the word
[12:14] <qul> let say it this way:
[12:14] <qul> She can't be forced to it ...
[12:15] <qul> even i won't ..but its an verry simpel question
[12:16] <qul> and that apple imprints thingie
[12:16] <[3j]> yes
[12:16] <[3j]> but what is the disc issue??
[12:17] <qul> the et disk under the sphinx?
[12:17] <qul> maybe it is a fraud claim...just a y/n
[12:18] <qul> Well anyway it doesn't matter that bad
[12:18] <qul> :-d
[12:18] <qul> Oh and Buddha is here also..
[12:19] <qul> Much famous people in here for such a small channel ..hahah
[12:19] <qul> comic
[12:19] <qul> euh
[12:19] <qul> cosmic
[12:19] <qul> ;-)
[12:20] <qul> Well any looked self through a scope here?
[12:20] <cosmic> I am famous?
[12:20] <[3j]> only the zetatalk.com people have looked
[12:20] <qul> oh
[12:21] <Douch3> what i dont understand is
[12:21] <Douch3> we cant see it yet
[12:21] <Douch3> but it will be here end of may
[12:21] <[3j]> but they can :P
[12:21] <Douch3> it must be fast
[12:21] <[3j]> according the the tt inc 'team rogues' they can see it
[12:22] <Douch3> im not saying they dont
[12:22] <Douch3> bbut can we even begin to imagine the size,speed and chaos
[12:23] <[3j]> everyone will die
[12:23] <Douch3> yea thats what i think
[12:23] <Douch3> its hard to imagine anyone surviving
[12:24] <[3j]> only the people who are kind to the zetas
[12:24] <[3j]> and to there created hybrid race
[12:24] <[3j]> whom btw, will be trying to take over the planet
[12:28] <slar> [3j]: it seems you don't have enough imagination to attempt to think that they have technology to *avoid* any taking over the planet, and simply clean the planet *now* not waiting for any cataclisms
[12:30] <qul> http://members.lycos.nl/webhtml/planet5.html  (another creation)
[12:30] <qul> just for the fun
[12:32] <Douch3> nice
[12:34] <qul> This is one of my favorites : hehe
[12:34] <qul> http://members.lycos.nl/webhtml/alien5.swf
[12:34] <qul> http://members.lycos.nl/webhtml/alien5.swf
[12:34] <qul> http://members.lycos.nl/webhtml/alien5.swf
[12:35] <qul> http://members.lycos.nl/webhtml/alien5.swf
[12:35] * qul has left #Troubled_Times
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[12:35] <qul> http://members.lycos.nl/webhtml/alien5.swf
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[12:39] <qul> Sirgrim usually jumps in here?
[12:39] <qul> still?
[12:39] <qul> hmm
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[12:42] <op> well anyone here online now?
[12:43] [op:#Troubled_Times PING]
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[12:46] * Guest is now known as Nol
[12:47] * Nol test
[12:47] <Nol> hello?
[12:49] <Dsarith> Hi No1
[12:49] <Nol> hi
[12:49] <Nol> oops
[12:50] <Dsarith> And what brings you here
[12:50] <Nol> http://members.lycos.nl/webhtml/alien5.swf
[12:51] <Nol> i don't know if it reached the channel ..so that's why
[12:51] <Nol> okay it works ...so no problem
[12:52] <Nol> Has anyone some intresting story/news ?
[12:53] <Nol> Well , i will leave this channel any moment so bye
[12:53] <Nol> good night
[12:53] <Nol> bye :-)
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[13:35] <vn> wtf
[13:35] <vn> oops nothing
[13:36] <Odd> riiight
[14:35] <Jesus> what a silly goose
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[15:21] <[]GregACNJ> .
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[23:59] * juditness is away.. dentist. :/ [mail: judit@geekychick.org] at 09:03:10
Session Close: Fri Jan 24 00:00:00 2003